Q&A: Flyte’s Nick Hill and Will Taylor on Releasing Control, Embracing Imperfection, and the Intimate Making of Their Fourth LP, ‘Between You and Me’
INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW
☆ BY NOA JAMIR ☆
LONDON-BASED FOLK BAND FLYTE — the duo composed of childhood friends Nick Hill and Will Taylor, makes music that sounds like they’ve been around for fifty years – like a timeless piece you’d find in your parents’ record collection. Having met over a decade ago in secondary school, the pair became fast friends and musical partners, with Taylor taking on the role of lead singer and Hill providing harmony and instrumentation. The duo would go on to release their 2017 debut album, The Loved Ones, followed by their sophomore record This Is Really Going To Hurt (2021), rightfully earning their place as a beloved household name in the UK, one promising record at a time.
Just a couple years after releasing their critically acclaimed 2023 self-titled third album, Flyte is returning with their fourth full-length project, Between You and Me, due August 29 via Nettwerk. With the guidance of Brit Award-winning producer Ethan Johns (Paul McCartney, Laura Marling), the duo spent two months creating an old-fashioned, barebones record riddled with endless depth and discovery. Honing in on their impeccable vocal chemistry and confessional songwriting, Flyte’s Between You and Me is an intimate reckoning with the complexities of love, personhood, and recovery.
When connecting with Flyte over Zoom for our interview, I’m greeted by two brightly smiling faces. There’s a palpable sincerity and warmth about Will Taylor and Nick Hill. The two have a beautiful dynamic to witness; they’re constantly making each other laugh and finishing each other’s sentences, as lifelong friends tend to do. Cooped up on a couch in Taylor’s Northeast London flat, the duo open up to The Luna Collective about the journey of making Between You and Me, their love of touring the States, and the importance of collaboration.
LUNA: What all have you guys been feeling leading up to the release of Between You and Me?
TAYLOR: Oh that’s a big question. We’re feeling so many things. Sleepy. Emboldened [laughs]. Definitely excited for everyone to get the album. It’s our fourth one. It’s not our first time doing this now, so it’s interesting to feel like we’re over the hurdle of the first three. The first album you release is always such a big moment. You have all these ideas of what it will feel like, and then it doesn’t feel like that, and then you get sad or you get happy. And then the second album is like the difficult album, and you’ve got to prove yourself. And on the third one, you’re sort of like, “Okay, now we’re rolling.” With this one, there’s a kind of relaxed feeling. I think it even comes across in the sound of the music – not that the music is slacking in any way – it’s just that it’s really found its feet. A nervous anticipation is maybe not there with this one. It’s more of, “Well, we like it, and we’re putting it out, and we can’t wait for everyone to be able to listen to it.” So there’s a sense of relaxation and confidence, but I’m sure that will be short-lived.
LUNA: How has Flyte’s sound evolved over the years?
TAYLOR: It’s definitely taken on different guises in terms of there being different personnel. We made a conscious choice to make it quite minimal in terms of the people [involved]. It was just me and Nick and the producer Ethan [Johns], who is producing on the record but also playing. So it was just the three of us, you know, in comparison to the last album which was a real ensemble piece that had a lot of creativity from different places. And on the first record, it was a very traditional four-piece band. And on the second one we were experimenting with different producers over in L.A. So this one felt very much – just from a sonic point of view – honed to the tip of what Nick and I sound like when it’s just the two of us operating in a simple way.
HILL: We’ve sort of grown into our songwriting as individuals and together, and so there’s a lot of focus. We were really focused and knew exactly what we wanted. We did it quickly. We didn’t wait for the songs to get muddled or confused. We didn’t give ourselves time to do that. It was really razor sharp. We just knew exactly what we wanted. It’s a nice feeling.
TAYLOR: It’s a rare thing – it’s not something we’ve experienced before. And we’re already talking about making the next one and wanting to make it so that we’re super out of our comfort zone and change it up completely again. We just did it quickly. We gave ourselves a deadline, and had about two months to make it. The whole thing didn’t exist at all, and then we made it exist. It was almost like a test to see if we could do it or not.
LUNA: On the album cover for Between You and Me, as well as on all the art work leading up to the album, there’s an image of a glowing figure or a spirit of some sort. Who or what is that figure, and what does it represent to you guys?
TAYLOR: Well the short story is that it’s sort of an image depicting an inner struggle—the shadow and the light. The long story is that we had paired up with our artistic director, a guy called Aidan Cochrane, who is responsible for a lot of generally just good, very coherent projects. We’d not met him before, but we thought it would be so nice to have someone take the reins on the artwork and allow them to have their own creative voice without us butting in. That was maybe part of the dream for this record generally was to be like, whoever was producing let’s let them really be the producer, and whoever was making the artwork to let them really be the artist, whoever’s at the record company let’s let them really do their jobs and let’s just really trust everyone to do their best thing. With artists generally – and this is understandable – there’s a tendency to want to just really hold on tight to every aspect to make sure that it’s fully under their control. For this one, we thought it’d be nice to just fully hand it over. So before we’d even recorded the record, we had the lyrics to all the songs, and we sent the lyrics to Aidan along with a mood board that I’d been building up on my photography account for like a year that was comprised mostly of paintings of a specific time – kind of mid-century. So Aidan sort of took that and came back immediately with a painting – I forget the name of the painting – but it was of a man wrestling with his shadow. And to be honest, in that moment, we had just said, “Yep. Brilliant. Let’s do that.” And he cracked on and did it. It was a beautifully put-together thing.
We went to an old house in the middle of England and had brought an amazing model who does ballet and a lot of body modeling. He had a very old-fashioned body – it did feel as though there was an element of the classical about the way his body looked. Kind of looked Roman or something like that. And then, using a medium format on a film camera, we got him to pose out on the field with his arms stretched out. There was a huge light; we overexposed him, so he began to shine and glow like he does in the image. We held the camera where it was and got him to move into another position. And so it’s a combination of two analog photographs put on top of each other.
LUNA: That’s incredible.
TAYLOR: Yeah, as a piece of creative technique alone, I thought, “Well done, Aidan. What a good job to have made that into life.” It looks maybe modern or like it could’ve been made in a computer or something like that. You don’t really know where it belongs. It’s kind of an interesting image. But I also thought, “What an unbelievably surprising type of image for our music.” It was quite surprising for us, in a good way.
‘Between You and Me’ by Aidan Cochrane
LUNA: When listening to the album, the one word that kept coming to mind was “compassion.” I feel that there’s a lot of compassion and empathy in this record. Straight out the gate with the opening song, “Hurt People,” you guys touch on the reality that everybody on this earth has been hurt in some capacity and is walking around carrying that hurt. The album talks a lot about how our pain often shows up in the ways we treat each other and ourselves. What were some of the things you guys were reckoning with while writing this album?
TAYLOR: We were both going through quite big things, weren’t we?
HILL: Yeah.
TAYLOR: There’d been family stuff. There’d definitely been some difficult stuff that had come in different ways to both Nick and I, and there was a lot of work that needed doing. There was a foretelling in the previous album about this sense of settling and the beginnings of things, and in the way that even on bad days, there’ll be challenges ahead, but we’ll roll up our sleeves and get down to it. It felt like leading up to the album, there was a lot of that work actually happening.
HILL: The work was happening, and we were kind of observing the world through that lens.
TAYLOR: Yeah, there were some ugly things being examined, as well as beautiful things. I think it’s quite a realistic, human array of emotions really. I think we were just coming up against grown-up challenges. You know when you’re in your early twenties and you’re like, “I love this person and they don’t love me back” or “Why is the world so wrong” and all that kind of stuff? This is maybe us examining things on a smaller scale, I suppose, but in a way, a larger scale. There’s kind of big, grown-up themes … sorry, I’m struggling to put it properly.
HILL: This is good. We’re learning through this conversation. Thank you. We really need to get our thoughts straight, don't we? [laughs]
LUNA: [laughs] It’s okay if it feels too personal to share publicly. We don’t have to go into detail!
TAYLOR: I do think that’s something we actually decided after many years of releasing music, that a lot of it is very, very personal. With this one, we liked the idea of not over-explaining any of it and allowing people to project their own world into it. But it certainly comes from a place of learning and of love, but also hurting and fixing. I think this album is about fixing.
LUNA: I can see that. At the same time, I see an overarching theme of acceptance throughout this record, especially with songs like “If You Can’t Be Happy.” That song talks about accepting someone no matter the condition they’re in. I think that’s pretty radical in a sense—to accept someone for exactly who they are without trying to fix them.
TAYLOR: I love that you picked up on that song. It’s kind of the theme of the entire record.
LUNA: That’s exactly what I thought too. While listening to it, I wrote down in my notes that that song highlights what this album is all about: love in its purest form.
TAYLOR: I love it.
HILL: I love how you describe it: “love in its purest form.”
TAYLOR: Yeah, I think “Hurt People” is also doing that. It’s why we open with that song, because we wanted to make it clear what people are in for. And then as the album continues, all those themes are gradually explored.
LUNA: What are some things you guys love about each other?
TAYLOR: Nothing.
HILL: [laughs] Yeah, we’ve just ground down to hate now.
TAYLOR: [laughs] That’s such a nice question. What do I love about Nicolas? Let me count thy ways. It’s very easy to say nice things about Nick. He’s a very lovely person. Very constant and unflappable. Even when going through hardcore sh*t, he’s still there just smoking his cigarettes and being a silly nanny.
HILL: Well I would say William is a supportive human being. He also is – he said it about me – but he is the coolest head under pressure that I’ve ever met. Very reassuring to be around at all times, just knowing someone is there to help you and guide you and hold your hand. And also, I don’t say it enough, he’s an incredibly talented individual. Beautifully, soulfully talented—
TAYLOR: No, no, no.
HILL: [laughs] We’re British. We can’t do this. We’re not allowed to do this.
TAYLOR: Yeah this is not – one doesn’t do this. *starts fanning himself*
HILL: We’ve suddenly got so warm.
LUNA: [laughs] I knew that would be a challenge. You guys did great. Speaking of challenges, were there any that you faced while making this record?
TAYLOR: That’s an easy one to answer in a way because of the way we made the record. We like to spend a decent amount of time poring over things and making sure everything’s great. But because we decided to go and make it with this particular producer and knowing how it would work, we hadn’t allowed ourselves to really do any perfecting at all because everything had to be live and nothing could be edited or tuned or anything like that. So we both had to be accepting.
HILL: We had to let go a little bit, yeah.
Will: Yeah, like I listen to the record and I’m like, “I can’t believe I sung it like that.” But you just have to be alright with that. And I guess we had the fortunate favor of knowing quite a few people who had already made records with Ethan [Johns] who had maybe expressed similar sentiments. But as a listener you think, “No but I love the way it sounds. It sounds like you. I hate the idea of anyone adding anything or putting anything in the way of me being able to see you like that.” But it’s funny being on the other side of it, ‘cause you do feel uncomfortable seeing the most–
HILL: The most exposing.
TAYLOR: Yeah, it’s exposing, is what it is.
HILL: It’s musically the most exposed I think we’ve sounded, for sure.
TAYLOR: Yeah, which hopefully will be a good thing for the listener, and an eternal bane for us.
LUNA: I’d love to talk a little bit about a few specific songs off the album, such as “Alabaster,” which features the legendary Aimee Mann. I found that song to be a slight departure from the rest of the album, because it has a bit of a grittier sound to it. There’s a pulsing electric guitar throughout it that seems to differentiate it from the other more acoustic songs. How did that collaboration come about, and was that heavier sound intentional?
TAYLOR: It was all very intentional. The theme of the song basically dictated how we would make it sound. And even having a female perspective in the song – much like we had on “Tough Love” with Laura Marling – really elevated the concept. It made it feel like it was a story being told. We’d begun to write it in L.A. with Miya Folick who’s an artist on our label. And we were writing about this sort of fantasy affair there in L.A. With all the fires that were happening at that point, and the earthquake that had happened, and the power outage near [Miya], it felt like a very good pairing.
HILL: A sort of Armageddon-y vibe, but with love.
TAYLOR: Yeah, it’s about an affair and it’s this seismic, gigantic, destructive thing and we were pairing it with the way the climate felt in L.A. The combination of those two things, first of all, made us think we needed the song itself to sound like it was burning down. The guitar running all the way through it was just this hugely broken and distorted sound. Because of that and because of knowing and loving Aimee’s work so much and feeling as though – when writing it – we were being influenced by not just her music but an era of music that sort of revolved around some American artists in that ‘90s and early 2000s era that we had been influenced by as young kids, it felt like just the most perfectly appropriate artist to sing that song with us. And luckily, Ethan Johns actually lived in L.A. at that time.
HILL: And he made a few of those records.
TAYLOR: Yeah, he made those records and knew Elliot Smith and worked with John Brion and Fiona Apple and all those people at the time. And so it was very quick and easy for him to go, “Oh yeah Aimee, brilliant.” And she just sang her vocals and sent it back to us. We never met her, but we’re hoping we’ll meet her in L.A. when we come through on the tour so we can sing it at the same time.
Flyte’s Between You and Me Tour
LUNA: That would be awesome. I notice you guys reference California a few times throughout the record. Do you feel a particular connection to the West Coast?
TAYLOR: I’d say we do. First of all with “Emily and Me” and “Alabaster,” we wrote them on the same trip in L.A. And we have some wonderful friends there, and there are some amazing musicians and producers. And we’re very English and so when we’re over there it’s sort of a novelty to us, and we’re maybe a novelty to L.A. So I think there’s something in the way those cultures clicked just on that one trip that really bled into the theme of the record. And funnily enough, San Diego is also mentioned just because it’s where our old drummer moved to. So there are some links there. But it’s so funny because I remember being in my teenage years and looking at British bands, and they’d start going over to America and singing about America and I’d be like, “Oh pfff.” So I hope it doesn’t feel like that.
LUNA: [laughs] No, it doesn’t feel like that at all!
TAYLOR: There’s a lot of emotional stuff that happens to you when you’re traveling. You just are there processing things and you’re also connecting with new people and things. So there’s definitely a piece of our heart out there for sure. And every time we’ve made the journey over the Atlantic and gone on these journeys around the country, it’s always been an incredibly inspiring thing to happen. And also, for more reasons than one, it’s a fascinating country to us. We’re watching it all the time and seeing politically what it’s going through right now too. It’s just an absolutely terrifying and fascinating thing, and we have so many people we love who live in North America. We’ve been there so often that it’s definitely a part of our lives just as much as London is. It’s nice that it’s made its way into our work, in a way.
LUNA: I think one of the reasons why your music resonates with so many people here in the States is because – during times like these that feel uncertain and a bit apocalyptic – it’s important to be reminded that we aren’t alone, and that there is a sense of community to be found within the suffering.
TAYLOR: I think our last two records are there for that. They’re soothing records. They’re not trying to be massively energetic or cool or stylish or anything like that; they sound like they’re self-soothing. Sometimes we worry, ‘cause there’s so many important things happening in the world and we’re singing these silly little songs about our feelings. But the better way to look at it is that that’s what we need in times like these.
LUNA: Do you notice a difference in creating in the States versus at home in the UK?
HILL: The adventure of it is inspiring for sure.
TAYLOR: Yeah, it’s whatever we’re holding, I guess. We don’t consciously realize it, but we’re kind of living our existence and building all this stuff up until it comes out. As a songwriter, you can try and sit down every day and be really disciplined and try and write a song as often as possible, which is great if people have the discipline to do that. But a lot of the time, it’s like, how many great songs can you write if you’re putting yourself in a studio every day and not actually going out there and living your life? I guess traveling is an example of that. You know, we’re meeting so many different people and having so many conversations and witnessing so many surprising things that by the time we’ve landed on the West Coast, for instance, we’ve got a lot to unpack. Yeah, traveling is really important I think, just to keep your soul stimulated.
LUNA: Are there any songs you feel particularly excited to play and connect with people on this tour?
TAYLOR: Maybe “If You Can’t Be Happy.” We love that song. We weren’t sure if we’d nailed it on the album, but it didn’t matter what we thought; we just did it. And so that’s what you’re listening to, and you’re connecting to that song just based on the song itself.
LUNA: I think that’s my personal favorite song off the record.
HILL: Oh that’s very nice.
TAYLOR: It’s the one I listen to the most, I think, for maybe just purely the content of the song. I’m really, really excited to play that live just to see if more people like you have connected to it and might know the words by that point.
LUNA: Lovely. I have just one last question. We’re ending on a bit of a sappy note. What are some things you’ve learned from each other after having written together over the past decade?
HILL: Oh that’s a very good question.
TAYLOR: I think that I would probably be a little bit too lyric-driven and too flat if I was just writing on my own without Nick. Is that fair to say?
HILL: I guess I definitely keep an eye on melodies and make them a bit more elaborate than they need to be [laughs]. We’re checking each other all the time.
TAYLOR: Well that’s what happens with collaboration, you know, you have someone effectively saying, “That’s great but you can do even better, just keep going.” And then the other person’s saying it back, until you get to the point where both of us kind of know when we will be satisfied.
HILL: I think one thing that’s really valuable, especially in a creative setting when you’re collaborating, is knowing when to say things and knowing when to shut the f**k up. Because most of the time people just want to say something because they want to feel like they’ve collaborated, but sometimes it’s the worst thing you can do ‘cause you just might slow up the process. I’m guilty of it all the time. I’m saying that like I’ve perfected it.
TAYLOR: No, I don’t think you are. I mean, I think that’s it. You just allow the other person to find something until they’ve stopped finding it. And then you can be like, “Right, now I’ll find something.” I think that is a sort of privilege that you wind up with after just enough years of doing it and having figured it all out.
