Q&A: Harmless Grapples with Career and Meaning on ‘by them, by you, by me’
INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW
☆ BY JACK BERTH ☆
Photo by Alejandra Villalba García
NACHO CANO WISHES CAREERS WERE SIMPLE—and it is hard not to agree, especially when framed as a breakup on his latest album, by them, by you, by me. Cano, known as Harmless, has some serious leg in the dream pop game, making soothing synths and soft lyrics since I’m Sure, which was released in 2012. You may recognize Harmless for his viral hit, “Swing Lynn,” which was the background to many summer montages on TikTok back in 2020 and 2021.
Now, he is 33, still continuing to produce some wonderful dream pop, but with some more shoegaze buzz. Born in Mexico City and now residing in sunny LA, Harmless did not always have it easy. In 2017, he suffered majorly from an accident with a drunk driver. Having to get his face rebuilt, heal for over a year, he decided to get re-focused and go back into music. Along the way, he met and married his now wife, Ariana, toured with Vacations, traveled, and traveled some more.
by them, by you, by me comes at a time where Harmless feels conflicted with his career. After a bump of virality from “Swing Lynn,” he did not just want to be a one-song guy, but that grind of trying to find another hit song and laboring to make an album opens up feelings of stress and anxiety. The dream pop guitars and synths are still there with the previously mentioned shoegazey buzziness, but even offers softer moments of his yearning vocals and instrumentals. It really feels like Harmless is letting it all out: the happiness, the scariness and the sadness.
Read below about his feelings and thoughts on by them, by you, by me.
Photo by Alejandra Villalba García
LUNA: A couple of weeks after the release of by them, by you, by me, how are you feeling?
HARMLESS: Ambivalent. On one hand, happy to have it no longer be mine, on the other, it’s never really over. Making a record about falling out of love with your passion will have you feeling complicated.
LUNA: This is your second studio album following the release of Springs Eternal last year. What did you want to change and/or continue for by them, by you, by me?
HARMLESS: Ideally, I wanted to do a record a year for as long as I could. The timeline was 4 years. I thought that by pushing myself to have that kind of discipline, I could not only create momentum but hone in my craft without distraction. I think thanks to pushing myself, I found what worked and what didn’t on the last. I also made a point of creating rules. So, like I was only able to use a certain number of effects on a guitar, I couldn’t get to maximalist with some instruments, I told myself no PADS or synths. I wanted to make something that could be easily translated into a live setting and feel alive when you listen.
LUNA: The indie-shoegazy-dreamlike sound you have has become a staple, dating all the way back to your debut mixtape, I’m Sure. What makes you so comfortable and confident in this soundscape?
HARMLESS: It’s familiarity. I think also anytime I have ventured into anything else, I have felt like I have maybe failed my own expectations. I still enjoy making beats and ambient music, because they’re textural, sorta like shoegaze is. It’s all exercise, and it’s best to stick to the exercise that you can be consistent with. I wanna get good at this, y’know?
LUNA: You briefly discussed the virality that came with hit (and now certified Gold) track “Swing Lynn,” saying that you were chasing that virality instead of trying to create music honest to you. Can you describe the feelings further of gaining that virality and the complications that come with it?
HARMLESS: It just went platinum, which is very crazy. I think the issue with vitality is that it’s a conduit for validation, and that is a drug you can’t buy or pick when you come off it. You just see growth, and it gets to you. There’s a mounting fear, but there’s also a lot of good that comes from that. You don’t have to work retail, you can start taking better care of yourself, but all at cost of something that can drop on a dime. I think the fear of going back to a life—that after being hit by a car—would prove difficult, it made keeping things going a necessity. I have a profound fear that soon enough everything will end. I think I chased this validation “virality” not for the sake of acclaim but security. It complicates things, making art to eat. I still haven’t overcome that fear. I think that’s why my love affair with music changes, as with most relationships once money comes into the equation.
LUNA: Something that you have made proudly honest about you is your heritage, being born in Mexico City. How do you incorporate your Mexican identity into your music?
HARMLESS: I am proud of it. It really doesn’t become incorporated in the traditional sense. I really don’t enjoy the idea that as time has gone on, the merging of identity and genre remains unchanged for latin folks in indie music. I know that we look to the Marias and Cuco as examples of that crossover, but since then I feel the door has been shut. I think the matter of just existing as a dream-pop musician who is an immigrant is inherently a political act, and there’s pride in that. I don’t want to fit into the designated box that the ecosystem has built for folks like me. It does make things tougher, but then again, I go to so many dream-pop shows in LA and I see so many Latine kids there. It feels like our genre, and it feels like there should be folks that look like us on stage doin’ it. I hope to be that.
LUNA: I definitely agree. I recently saw the Marias at All Things Go in NYC and saw so many Latine fans, but even parents were so nice. They were not only enjoying themselves, but also getting emotional (which, of course, got me emotional). Speaking of dream pop shows, what are some shows or artists you have seen recently or recommend? Other Latine dream pop artists? Other Latine artists in general?
HARMLESS: Honestly, with the way that shows are priced, I really only go see legacy acts, which is kind of sad. I last saw Shintaro Sakamoto, and it was incredible. Before that, it was Underworld, and it was a riot. As for artists? I am not sure. I am really tapped out of the scene and would feel disingenuous if I googled an answer for you right now. I mostly listen to stuff from Boomkat lately. I fear sometimes that if I listen to music that is too close to my genre, I am either going to copy them or be jealous of them. My favorite album of the year right now is Gift Songs by Jefre-Cantu Ledesma. That’s more of the lane of what I am about right now.
LUNA: Additionally, with your status as an immigrant, you unfortunately had to cancel your tour for the album, saying, “The country isn’t in its best place at the moment.” Why do you think it is important to take this stand? What would you want to see differently in order to make touring less of a risk?
HARMLESS: I don’t want to endanger myself or other people. The consequences and risk factors surrounding even talking about the reasoning as to why I don’t feel comfortable going out there still scare me. Even mentioning it with you is something that worries me. It sucks that even though I have become naturalized, I worry that I can pay a price because of speaking my mind. I mean I think touring isn’t going to become less of a risk for a while. I think it’s only ramping up, and we are going to see more and more acts not want to take that risk.
Outside of visas and immigration, touring is insanely expensive, and it’s only getting more expensive over time. I don’t understand how a band or an artist can go out there without suffering great cost. It feels like art is once again in a space where the privileged, the ones who can stand to lose nothing from being on the road, will be the people on the road.
Photo by Alejandra Villalba García
LUNA: The major theme of by them, by you, by me is about the dissatisfaction with labor when it is supposed to make you happy. What made you want to present the theme as a breakup?
HARMLESS: I think a passion and a job are a relationship that we have with the abstract. I think music is also abstract. So, it makes sense to me that these two things could be congruent, and a way to talk about where I’ve been at. I think as a Mexican and as a millennial, labor was supposed to be the end-all, be-all answer to our lives. Our prospects were always tied to the dream of what we would be when we grew up. I think when you get to this age and your dreams do come true, it’s hard not to feel a bit heartbroken. You break up with your dogma of faith, that you’d be whole because you reached it. A good analogy would be to look at The Graduate. He gets the girl, sure. But then? What?
I think for me I felt that things would get easier, and I wouldn’t be fighting the same battles over and over again. I think a lot of people in my generation feel that way. Stagnant, like in a codependent relationship. So when you fall out of love and break up with that relationship, that abstract, what does it look like? I think that’s where I wanted to take my record. As the like, Hail Mary before you break up with someone for good. The letter you leave on the table as you pack your things. ‘Cause hey, who knows, maybe when you leave is when it can finally change.
LUNA: Because it is such a strong theme, do you have any other jobs besides making music? How is trying to balance other jobs while still making music?
HARMLESS: I like to help a friend out at a record store in LA called Mount Analog, but besides that, no. I’ve been doing music full-time for the last six years. I feel eternally grateful for it, even with its fear and pain. Wouldn’t trade it for the world. The real balance comes from me trying to establish personal discipline. I treat this like a job. I clock in and I produce stuff for hours, even if it doesn’t work. Answer e-mails. All the fun stuff.
LUNA: There is so much great guitar work throughout the album. Is the guitar the main instrument you songwrite with? How does the songwriting process go, whether it is with a guitar or not?
HARMLESS: I tried something out with this record that I hadn’t before, which was write the bass parts first and then the guitars. I think I am so riff forward that sometimes it makes it hard for me to write vocals to my music. I always feel like the vocals and lyrics are the weakest parts of my songs, and I wanted to change that this time around. I’d play bass and sing a tune, then build from there. I think half the record was written this way. If not, just traditionally with a guitar and then with the riff - the vocals always came in last.
LUNA: There are some clean and soft mixes across the album, but there are also sprinkles of more heavy and edgier mixes, like on “what’s another year?” and “aw, shucks.” Why did you want this varied selection of production on the album?
HARMLESS: I think fuzz is a great way to express anger. Like, when you’re in a garage or at a show and you’re going deaf with energy. I wanted that on the record. Especially with “aw, shucks,” I wanted to end my record like a wall of sound and the sopranos. I wanted to end it on my terms and ask the listener to go back to the text and wonder why I did that. Or, I wanted to cut the cable, end my own relationship, on my own terms.
Photo by Alejandra Villalba García
LUNA: This album also has you collaborating with Scarlett Seraphim on the track “why do you do this to me?” How did you guys meet and decide to make a song? How was working with her?
HARMLESS: We met at CalArts ages ago. I don’t really remember a time without having her around to sing with me. I feel like her voice is really tied to my ideas of textures on a song. Working with her is always easy. It sometimes takes like an hour or two, and then we talk shit. She’s fantastic.
LUNA: The album title: by them, by you, by me, is a very intimate and emotionally driven title. Who is the “them” and “you” in reference to? Why did you choose the title?
HARMLESS: Them refers to the crowd, the industry, the environment, the audience. You, refers specifically to music and my relationship to it. Generally speaking, the you here is the love affair.
LUNA: The cover also includes a picture of your wife. How much does she affect what you do musically? Why did you choose to have her on the cover?
HARMLESS: I don’t think I could handle having this be a full-time job without her. I think she puts up with a lot. I got this half-frame camera and I love how it both divides and unifies the moment. Composition is random, and I really love that I can’t pick it. I tried to get a pick of both of us, but it ended up getting cut off, and I think that reflected how the record feels. I feel apart from the thing I love the most. Also, I put her on the cover as a reference to some of my favorite records with guitar tones I wish I could have figured out. I’d like to keep those records to myself. Regardless, I like that she’s in it.
LUNA: You spent some time in Japan on a trip and even recorded some of your music videos there. How was it?
HARMLESS: Amazing. I plan to go back every year if I can, for longer and longer. I like it because it’s so far away that nobody can reach me. The time difference is so dramatic that I am, in a sense, alone.
LUNA: Completely understandable. Do you feel as a music artist it is important to have these periods of time alone? Does it give you space for new song ideas? Listen to new music? Decompress?
HARMLESS: I think in life it’s important to find a space to be alone, either entirely or with company. I think there are partnerships like my own that allow me to be alone and heal in a way I need to. As for new song ideas or music, I think going into regeneration with a goal in mind takes away from what regeneration is. I think that if I want to decompress I have to be in the present and a lot of music making lately is not about that. I feel that if an idea arises, which it has on trips like these, I will voice memo it and then move on with my day.
I want to learn to separate who I am when I am working versus who I am as a person. It’s why I don the suit. I want to know and feel that when I am in costume, I am very much at work, and when the suit is off I am off. A lot of artists have a tough time turning off, I know I do. I think this is why I come up with such elaborate and dramatic ways to remove myself and take a break since a creative mind has such an intensely difficult time doing so.
Photo by Alejandra Villalba García
LUNA: Speaking of music videos, despite the sad and mellow lyrics, the music videos for the songs on this album are a mix of hilarious and sincere. How do you navigate trying to have a good blend of seriousness and unseriousness in your music videos?
HARMLESS: I think this is how I navigate everything. Including live shows. I just, my life has not been without its misery. I really don’t want to live off of that when I am on stage or on video. I don’t play cool, I don’t play anything. Even at my worst, when I was a puddle after being hit by a car, I was still making jokes. It’s who I am and who I will, to some, unfortunately, always be.
LUNA: You have had a very long career. Battled through a serious accident (puddle), had a viral hit, and still went on to release many, many projects. If you told your 2012 self (before the release of I’m Sure) everything that happened in your life until now, what do you think their reaction would be? Would you show the music you released, and if so, what would they think?
HARMLESS: I think he wouldn’t be surprised by any of it except getting married. I think drama and magic has been the conduit to the Nacho Cano story. Romance? Sure, but not like this. I thought I would be yearning into eternity. I wouldn’t show them any music. I think I would just make sure that they look for a Mexican therapist sooner rather than later. Your emotions are and will always be in Spanish bro.
LUNA: You did cancel the tour for by them, by you, by me, but do you have anything else planned or coming up in the near future?
HARMLESS: I have one show on December 6 that I hope people come out to. After that, I am not sure. I am gonna go to Japan and be with my thoughts. This record cost a lot. Not necessarily financially, but emotionally. I think about how all things in life are bets. We make bets to improve and get a little bit better. Sometimes it doesn’t pay out, and you gotta recoup. I feel that you can always recoup financially. Emotionally? I am not so sure. Gets harder and harder with age. So I guess I am just gonna try and recoup.
