Q&A: Deserts, Duets And Desire for Direction: Jack Van Cleaf Finds Clarity in Chaos in ‘JVC’
INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW
☆ BY DANY MIRELES ☆
“ULTIMATELY IT WAS JUST CHASING THE DESERT AND I WANTED TO IMMERSE MYSELF IN THAT” — With JVC out today, Jack Van Cleaf enters a new creative chapter. One marked by a collection of songs that wander through devotion, doubt and the long road back to oneself. Written in the quiet aftermath of graduation and across desert landscapes, from Joshua Tree to East Texas, the album is a study in restlessness, stillness, and the quiet places where growth begins.
In conversation with The Luna Collective, singer-songwriter Jack Van Cleaf opens up about the emotional terrain beneath this album, the collaborative spirit that shaped it, and what it means to write through fear without needing to have all the answers.
LUNA: When did you start writing songs? Do you remember your very first one—what it sounded like, what it was trying to say?
VAN CLEAF: I wrote my first song when I was 14, and I'm laughing because, like, I wasn't trying to say much, other than I had a crush on a girl on a family vacation. We were on a family vacation to Pismo Beach in California. My buddy and I met some girls on the beach, and then I went home with my guitar. I tried to write a love song called the “Lullaby of Pismo Beach.” And it’s never going to see the light of day.
LUNA: Congratulations on your album, it is so good! You created music in Joshua Tree and the Texas/Mexico border. What drew you to places like Joshua Tree and the Texas/Mexico border while making JVC? Were you looking for stillness, escape, or something else entirely?
VAN CLEAF: I think one or both of those could fit into what I was looking for.Specifically, I was looking to record in the desert. These songs came out of the post-graduation depression I was going through when I graduated in 2019. I sank into a slump, realizing I didn't know how to manage myself and navigate my life without someone telling me what to do every day. And so all these songs kind of came out of that space. I kept picturing a desert in my mind when I was writing them, the way I've kind of described it thus far, is it felt like there was a kind of emotional or inner desolation going on. I was kind of looking for little signs of life within me, and the desert lent itself as an image of that where everything is completely laid away, except now, then there's this flash of green that you're constantly on the lookout for. So we first went to Joshua Tree, and it was beautiful, but it was a little too interrupted; there were too many signs of life. I wanted even more barren after that. And so, we went to the West Texas desert. That spoke to me, as far as what these songs felt like they were conjuring up image-wise. I wanted to be immersed in that during the recording process.
LUNA: I definitely could hear the desert vibe you were looking for all throughout this record. Diving more into the creative process of this album, did any songs on JVC start with a voice memo, or something unpolished? How did they evolve in the studio?
VAN CLEAF: They're the way I write. All of them live as voice memos first. I just play it down on my phone. Some of them I demoed out first, “Smoker” is the demo. We demoed it in Nashville, and Isaiah, whom I demoed it to, realized that we probably wouldn't change anything about it, so we just kept it as is and even touched it in the studio in West Texas. We demoed “Green” as well. Joshua and I did, and then I redid it in West Texas at Sonic Green Ranch, then we recorded “Joshua Tree” as a more Americana production. It had a banjo up front, and we realized it wasn't quite working for what we wanted, so we completely redid it in Sonic Ranch. We had a blast just jamming it out and making it more rock.
LUNA: You’ve spoken about how JVC explores finding gravity amidst chaos. What role did experimentation play in capturing that feeling? Were you particularly proud of any sonic risk or unexpected creative direction?
VAN CLEAF: Great question, these weren't risks, but some of the moments where we got to play as live as possible were very rewarding. Specifically at Sonic Ranch, it was extremely fun to play the last song, “Life.” We had a blast doing that, playing that live. Same with “Off to the Races.” There is one vinyl exclusive track called “Remember Katrina?” that's just on the physical record, where we had my friend Matt Tellgamo in there doing background vocals. He did this thing at the end of the song where he just narrated the lyrics low underneath the melody, it turned out so cool. I never would have thought it would have worked, but it sounded awesome. So that was a fun risk for sure. Another one was “Shouldn't Have Gone to L.A.,” where one of my guitarists was playing an electric or hollow body guitar, we miced the bridge of the guitar so they could hear it as an acoustic guitar as well. Alberto, who produced, did a great job mixing those two, and it created this tone that I'd never heard before that sounds awesome.
LUNA: Considering the diverse environments in which you recorded, how did the energy of each location shape specific songs or moments on JVC?
VAN CLEAF: I wonder if there was much of a difference. Ultimately, it was just chasing the desert, and I wanted to immerse myself in that. And hopefully that came through. I'm glad you feel like you heard that in there. At the sound of “Green,” I was fully aware I was making an album at that point, and that's when all the anxiety set in. For me, it was like Oh, what am I doing making an album? Who gave me the right to do that? Some of the darkest, tensest songs were recorded there as well, so that some of that tension is probably audible from my anxiety about making the record of the songs we created there. But also, we were so taken care of there, too. So I think anything that went smoothly, and anything that sounds good, is largely because we were well fed and taken care of at both studios.
LUNA: The song “Green” is climate-conscious. How do you view the role of art in activism? Do you feel like "Green" is an example of how art can be a vehicle for change, especially with how you blend awareness with a broader pop audience?
VAN CLEAF: Yeah, it is different. I had so much fun writing the melody for it, it's just fun to get to. I've never spat a layer. It's that fast. Before art and activism, I guess I've thought about writing songs with a more political or socio-political message before, but I'm certainly not as vocal as a lot of friends of mine or other artists that I follow. If you know you're writing from the heart, and it's something you believe, and it makes you feel a certain way.
For instance, “Green,” I wrote it out of, yeah, anxiety about the world and the natural world, and how we're pushing it to its breaking point. If you feel that, it's likely that you're going to connect with somebody else, and they're going to be able to understand that.
Case of “Green,” it's not even that explicitly put forward that it's an environmentally-conscious song. It's just that I'm ultimately making the “Green” out to be this monster in the lyrics. So I think the feeling comes first, and if people listen and they feel that kind of fear, and then later they read or recognize that it's a song about the environmental crisis, then maybe that's a helpful way to make some people come around to seeing that. So ultimately, I do believe that the feelings have to be there first, that people have to connect with it and recognize the feeling that they have themselves in the song before any call to action.
LUNA: Let’s talk about “Rattlesnake.” Reimagining that song—your viral moment—with Zach Bryan is such an exciting move. What did you both want that duet version to say that the original didn’t?
VAN CLEAF: Great question. Zach and I started talking about giving the song a more Americana feel than it originally had. It began as a simple acoustic folk track, but Zach suggested adding pedal steel, which helped steer the sound in a new direction. I also wanted to include a banjo part I’d worked out with my best friend and guitarist, Ethan Fortenberry, from earlier live versions. We ended up recording both, and then Zach came up with the idea to add a horn section—something I hadn’t considered but loved. I used to include brass in my early recordings, so bringing that back felt both nostalgic and fresh. Lyrically, the line “Rattlesnake” has always been personal to me. I wrote it as a way of saying that sometimes, even when you love someone deeply, you fear you’ll end up hurting them. The best you can do is try to warn them, but in doing that, you might cause the hurt you were trying to prevent. It’s something I think a lot of people can relate to—this fear turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Still, I’ve heard people interpret the song as being about realizing someone hurt you and only seeing the signs afterward, which is also valid. What’s special about this new version is that it’s a duet. It adds new perspectives and makes the story feel more collective. Instead of just hearing my voice, you hear multiple people navigating similar emotions. It helps underline that this isn’t just my experience—it’s something many of us go through.
LUNA: From the very first note, JVC feels like an album made in motion—there’s this sense of journey and discovery in it. Was there an intentional decision to have it feel like a progression, both musically and emotionally?
VAN CLEAF: Actually, the sequencing of the album was the thing that took me the longest. I stalled. I was just dragging my deals, getting them to the label, deciding which songs were on the record, and what order. However, there were milestones that I was pretty sure I wanted to have in the sequencing of the record, and that's just like a start, middle, and end. I knew “Off to the Races” with the title of it and that subject matter, it felt like the right start to the record. I knew I wanted “Thinkin’ About It” as an acoustic reprieve in the middle of the record. It's probably the lowest subject matter, the most oppressive material on there. I was fairly positive I wanted “Life” to be the closing track, because sonically, how much we just leaned into it and made it blow up. The end of the track is a melodic callback to thinking about it.
LUNA: You’ve collaborated with so many talented people on JVC. What’s next in terms of collaborations? Is there any one artist or producer you haven’t worked with yet but would love to in the future?
VAN CLEAF: Yeah. Gregory Allen Isaac has been an idol of mine since I started leaning into songwriting in high school. So, even just sitting down to coffee with him one day would be awesome. I've always liked Ed Sheeran a lot. I know he's much more pop than the stuff I'm making at the moment, and those things might not sound like they go together, but he was a huge inspiration to me in high school as well. I've loved how he's handled himself in his career. I would love to just brush shoulders with him one day, and hopefully get some advice from him. Phoebe Bridgers is one of the greatest songwriters of our music scene and generation right now. So yeah, getting to collaborate with her at some point would be incredible as well.
Photo by Sam Lindsey
LUNA: Many artists choose to revisit their past work at different points in their careers. Do you ever see yourself returning to songs from JVC, whether through reimagined versions or live performance, and reinterpreting them as you grow as an artist?
VAN CLEAF: Totally. Every time I've gone in, I fantasize about it. As I was making the first version, I kept thinking about maybe an alternate version down the road. There are so many decisions to be made. I get insane decision paralysis. It's just picking a pair of pants in the morning. So every time I'm making a decision, making an album, I'm again fantasizing about, maybe I'll get the chance to make another decision down the road. That door is always open for me. That's an exciting prospect.
LUNA: Are there any other places around the world where you’d like to write and record, or any specific landscapes or cultures that you think would inspire your music?
VAN CLEAF: I've had this dream of renting a room on top of a bar in England or a coastal British town, ideally, that has an upright piano in it to write. I'm not a good piano player, but it's just been an image in my head as of late. You know, I feel like I've gotten to throw myself into the desert already, but I would gladly go back to Sonic Ranch again. Even growing up on the coast in Southern California, I don't feel like I've really taken in the coastal landscape and worked it into the writing before. So that could be an interesting approach.
LUNA: What do you hope people will take away from this album long after its release?
VAN CLEAF: I hope there's some solace, a sense of companionship. I don't think the album gives a very clear answer out of the kind of hole it digs itself into. But there's a little beacon of hope. I hope that you know that was all that was kind of believable for me. So I hope that is for listeners, specifically to anybody that found themselves in the exact situation I did out of college, or maybe out of high school, after being conditioned to live your life within a structure that wasn't in your control, and then dreaming of the day that you're free to govern your own life, getting there and realizing I have no idea how to do this, and it's scaring me, hopefully that this record can provide some solace to those people, because I was completely unprepared. I had no idea that I was going to feel this way when I graduated.
