Q&A: The Army, The Navy on Their Debut Album, ‘Fake Brave Life,’ Their Bible and Keeping the "Sauce"
INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW
☆ BY LUCY BULLINGTON ☆
UPON ENTERING THEIR HOUSE—it is almost exactly what you’d expect from the creative, Silver Lake-based music duo. The Army, The Navy, consisting of Sasha Goldberg and Maia Ciambriello, welcomed me warmly. Inside, the house was clearly the home of artists: spare guitars of different kinds lying around, two cats sprawled about, and various books and notebooks at hand. Remarkably, they moved in just three months ago, yet they have already cultivated a deeply lived-in home.
When we sit down in their backyard, both of their tattoos come into focus in the sunlight,a line that wraps around their wrists featured on Maia’s left wrist and Sasha’s right. From this point on, their many synchronicities slowly unfold throughout the interview. When asked about their influences and music taste, they are both passionate and sincere. They finish each other’s sentences in a helpful, yet never overpowering way. While they don’t share a pair of travelling pants, they keep a collaborative clothbound journal known as “the Bible,” where ideas and verses eventually become fleshed out songs. Their connection is so strong, yet they work so well because they also have their differences. Sasha leans more into pop, and Maia into folk. The synchronicities of these two genres are so sound in their music. The duo exists in an unspoken harmony that works so well simply because they are so damn complementary.
On June 12, the duo’s debut album, Fake Brave Life, will be released. Although the album shares a similar sincerity in its songwriting to their past projects, what sets Fake Brave Life apart can be found in its production and clear thesis. Unlike their two past hit EPs where they’d previously worked with one producer, the production on this album is much more collaborative. The record features a full string quartet and live percussion guiding the melodies. Ultimately, the thesis of the album encapsulates the idea of having to “feign bravery in order to put…art out into the world.
Luna had the chance to sit down with The Army, The Navy a week prior to the album’s release to chat about lyricism, the journey to create Fake Brave Life and much more. Read the full interview below.
LUNA: I realized from your bio that neither of you can pinpoint the moment where you decided to be a band. But what I'm curious about is: do you remember a visceral moment where you were like, “This works. We're good at this”?
GOLDBERG: Short answer: no.
CIAMBRIELLO: I think it was just implied to a certain extent. In college, Sasha and I always did all of our songwriting projects together; we were very much a unit. We lived together, we came from the same voice coach, and we came from the same hometown. We would always sing together. As we were grouped as a duo—and then started harmonizing with each other at random one-off shows—it just naturally became implied.
GOLDBERG: I think the first time we ever wrote anything together was the first week of freshman year of college. It was a horrible song, but nonetheless, there was just such a gravitational pull creatively toward each other.
LUNA: I'm interested in that, too. You guys talk about being so attracted to each other's processes. What specifically about each other initially drew you in creatively?
GOLDBERG: That’s a great question. I think Maia has really special melodies that are so her. Melodies that I know could only be hers. Before we were writing all of our songs together, I felt that especially. Now our styles are so connected that it's a little bit more enmeshed, but at first, that was really what drew me to you.
I think you have a really unique songwriting style and really special lyrics. You’ve always prided yourself on writing great lyrics that are really out-of-the-box and weird. In college, it was like a battle for who could be the most esoteric.
CIAMBRIELLO: Oh, so true, yeah! Because it was like the Adrianne Lenker core at the time.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, like, “Let’s get weird, let’s get crazy.” That was kind of your shtick.
CIAMBRIELLO: We had to get the weirdest and cringiest stuff out so we could find the perfect middle ground.I was very drawn to the fact that Sasha is a very independent, strong person. I’m drawn to people who are opinionated and natural leaders. As a collaborator, I want someone who is very self-assured and confident about what they like and what they don't like. That is something you’ve always possessed, and it helps guide me a lot.
It’s funny that you say that about the melodies, because that’s literally the same thing I remember finding so interesting about you. You’d come up with these riffs and I was like, “What the fuck? That is so cool, I would never think of that.” You still do that to this day. The patterns of your riffs and runs are so foreign to me still, even after eight years of working together. There are still little moments where you do that and I'm like, “I would have never, ever thought of that.”
Even though our writing is so enmeshed now, you still have these individual ideas that I fuck with after all of these years. The confidence and the uniqueness of the way you sang really drew me in.
GOLDBERG: Thanks, baby.
LUNA: Well, that's beautiful. I read about how you guys took songwriting classes together, and sometimes you were supposed to write in the voice of another artist. Are there any artists that stood out that you liked writing in the voice of? Any that stuck?
GOLDBERG: I remember doing a Caroline Polachek song.
CIAMBRIELLO: We also did an Alanis Morissette one. I don't remember that song. And then there was a SZA one. Once we graduated, we still took a lot of the lessons we learned from our songwriting class and tried to apply them when we weren't feeling particularly creative.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, anytime we aren't feeling very creative, we try to write a song from the perspective of a different artist and it usually works. We'll just pull up a "Sabrina Carpenter type beat" and write a Sabrina Carpenter song. Half the time we don't even do anything with the music. I have a memory of us trying to write a ballad and looking up Lana Del Rey beats, just singing back and forth to each other. It’s so helpful in getting the creative juices flowing.
It’s a little hack for us because it's so normal to get writer's block. Luckily, since we are a duo, I find that we rarely both feel that way at the same time. Usually, if one person doesn't feel super creative, the other person is like, “Nah, I feel creative right now, it’s fine.” We balance each other out. But if we're ever really exhausted by creativity, that’s our hack.
LUNA: Do you guys have a structured writing process? Do you sit down and block out time?
CIAMBRIELLO: No, it’s just organic. Super collaborative to the maximum. When we're feeling it, we're feeling it. Sometimes we'll be practicing singing a completely different song, a weird guitar thing will happen, and then we'll start writing a new song from that. But it always changes.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, and we never block out days where we're like, “Let’s try and write a song today.” That just puts us in a box.
LUNA: I really want to hear more about this "Bible" that you guys have.
CIAMBRIELLO: Let me grab it while she tells you about it.
GOLDBERG: I think it started when we first had probably 10 songs and realized, “We need somewhere to put all of these.” We like to write everything out. We also did it because Maia and I don't really know the actual chords for any of our songs, we just know the shapes. So it was important for us to find a place where we could write all of the shapes down.
CIAMBRIELLO: (Returns and brings out the journal) Look, The Army, The Navy, customized. And then we have a glossary.
LUNA: Oh my god, it's awesome.
CIAMBRIELLO: And we have a stamp that is a fretboard, so we can write where our fingers go on the frets, because we are not music theory legends.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, so it pretty much started just so we could remember our songs and their shapes, and then it ended up being a place where we have...well, a lot of doodling. (Pointing to her doodles) I love these little guys though, I think they’re so cute.
LUNA: When did this collaborative journal start?
CIAMBRIELLO: We've always kept a shared journal. Probably when we moved to LA, about three years ago. We wanted a bigger thing, so we transferred all of our songs from our old Bible to this new one.
LUNA: When you guys look back at older pages, what do you think has changed the most in your writing?
CIAMBRIELLO: We fluctuate a lot. Sometimes we really lean towards pop writing and lyricism, and other times we try to get really esoteric, niche and weird. But the biggest thing I've been noticing recently is our guitar playing has gotten a little bit more complex. It's less of something just to support the melody and more of an actual, tangible instrument part.
GOLDBERG: Exactly. I feel like there are a lot of songs in here where we were just plucking two strings literally just so we could have a foundation to sing over. But as we're writing more and getting more comfortable on the guitar, the parts have become more complex and interesting.
LUNA: I feel like this new album is so dreamy and more mystical than your past projects. What caused this shift?
GOLDBERG: For the first time, we had a lot of time to create the record and be intentional with it. In our past projects, we wouldn't write songs with the intention of them all being on one record. We would just write random songs and then eventually be like, “Okay, I think we have enough songs for a project, let's slap them in here and make this Sugar for Bugs or Fruit for Flies.”
But for the first time, we came together specifically wanting to make an album. We had all the songs written, we had two weeks in the studio, and we promised ourselves that we were not going to put a single song on this record that we didn't fully love. We just really had the gift of time, choice and intention. I think that naturally led us in a darker, more mystical, "midnight" and intense direction.
CIAMBRIELLO: We also worked with live instrumentalists. A lot of the time we work with one producer who can play everything, which is great and we love that. But for a lot of the songs on this record, we worked with a drummer, a guitarist, a bassist and an entire string quartet. I feel like that also just naturally made it a little bit more mystical.
LUNA: Were there any songs that took a long time or were hard to come together?
CIAMBRIELLO: "Two Collide" took a while. That one took the longest, but even then, it didn't take that long. We did everything in two weeks, so nothing took crazy long. We did cut out one song that we couldn't get right, but everything else came together really nicely.
LUNA: In terms of production or writing, what was the hardest song to finish?
CIAMBRIELLO: Why do I want to say "Crimson and Clay"?
GOLDBERG: "Crimson and Clay," for sure.
LUNA: It’s so interesting that you guys had a string quartet on the record. How are you planning on translating that onto the stage?
GOLDBERG: We have a strings player!
LUNA: Really? That's sick.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, super excited. We have a new band that we're gonna work with for our headline tour. Our new strings player's name is Matthew, and he plays strings, keys and harp. Though we don't know if we're gonna add the harp.
CIAMBRIELLO: Yeah, definitely almost impossible to lug a harp across the country!
LUNA: What song are you guys most excited to play live out of the new ones?
GOLDBERG: Ooh, that's a great question. I think probably "Fake Brave."
CIAMBRIELLO: That's exactly what I was gonna say! Because that song is just so mega. It's so produced, complex and big. I'm just so excited to have the option to make it just as big live as it is on the record.
LUNA: I'm interested in the central thesis of the album, which is “Fake Brave.” How did you guys come up with that?
GOLDBERG: Well, we have a song called "Little Bug," and at the end of it, one of the lines is, "If you're a wandering face / you know that bugs bite back and they play fake brave." Maia and I always keep a long list of phrases, ideas and names that inspire us. Every time we have something we like, we just write it down. I think "Fake Brave Life" was a phrase we had written on that list. We went and consulted it and we just loved that name.
It really resonated with us because when Maia and I moved to LA and started this career, songwriting was at first just a creative outlet for us. It wasn't necessarily a means to an end in terms of a career. Then we realized that it was kind of bigger than us, which is an amazing step to take, but it is also really scary when your art is commodified and is something that other people are waiting for and get to pick apart. The act of putting your art out into the world takes a lot of bravery and courage. We didn't expect to have an audience of people listening to us, so that’s where the term "Fake Brave Life" comes from. It's us having to feign bravery in order to put our art out into the world.
CIAMBRIELLO: Yeah, to be courageous and share something so sacred and vulnerable between the two of us, and open it up for people to be like, “I hate this,” or “I love this.” It has to be fake brave.
LUNA: Is there a specific moment in your artistic career where you felt like you had to fake bravery the most?
GOLDBERG: I think every time I go on stage. It's really scary.
CIAMBRIELLO: Yeah, I really do feel that "every time we go on stage" thing. Or if there's a particularly hard riff to sing. There was one point where my voice just wasn't agreeing with this one part of our song called "Alexandra." Before every show, I'd be like, “Just gotta fake it.” If I fuck it up, then that's that. I just have to pretend like I've got it in the bag. Usually, if I pretended like I had it in the bag, I'd do it fine.
Nobody is really born with the innate gift of being a public person who shares their art. For us, it's such a learned thing to perform. Actually, I take that back. I think some people are absolutely born with the gift of performance. But for us, it's something that we have to learn. Every single time we go on stage, we're learning how to put on the best show and how to sing for other people.
LUNA: It's interesting because your recent EPs had such great success. Did starting this new album feel like a clean slate, or did it feel like a lot of pressure?
GOLDBERG: Honestly, no pressure.
CIAMBRIELLO: No, it felt like no pressure. We're not signed to a big label that would put pressure on us. That was the exact reason why we didn't sign to a big major label, because we were scared of that pressure. Our songwriting is so sacred to us.
LUNA: What were you guys consuming while making the album? Books, movies, music?
GOLDBERG: Were we reading? No, we weren't reading. We were on tour! We were three months on the road, and then we went straight to make the record. What we were consuming was Love Island.
CIAMBRIELLO: Oh, we were literally watching Love Island the entire time. Yep, that's what we were doing. We'd go to the studio for 12 hours and we'd get back and watch Love Island.
LUNA: That sounds perfect.
CIAMBRIELLO: I was just so burnt out. I didn't have any capacity in my brain to listen to or watch anything that had tangible substance. When we were done in the studio, I was just like, “I need to veg out, eat popcorn, and watch Love Island.” So that's what we were consuming.
LUNA: Who are your biggest musical inspirations and influences?
GOLDBERG: Adrianne Lenker. She’s the best. Probably number one of all time in terms of lyricism.
CIAMBRIELLO: Her, for sure, and Ryan Beatty. Ryan Beatty is a more recent love for us. Helena Deland has a project that really inspires us called Someone New.
Sasha: Who else...Dijon? I love him so much. I keep listening to Absolutely. That’s an amazing album. He's so talented. We love Caroline Polachek, Beyoncé...and we love Jacob Alon, which is a relatively new love for us. They're a Scottish artist. I highly recommend Jacob Alon. Their new record is unreal. I feel like you're gonna be so obsessed with it. They're playing their first U.S. gig on October 8th in LA.
LUNA: What are your favorite lyrics you wrote on the album?
CIAMBRIELLO: We like the one from...I think it's "Fake Brave": “I hold bridges up / You knock mountains down / When the summit speaks, it's the purest sound / Like a tidal wave till it spits you out / Told me toughen up and prepare to drown.”
GOLDBERG: I really like: “I know that you don't think I'm dull, but you look up the things that I say, and in a way, it hurts more than just saying I'm wrong.” I didn't realize it doesn't rhyme until this exact moment! I'm like, “Wait...” But I like that line. I just think it's so real.
LUNA: What's your favorite lyric that you didn't write?
GOLDBERG Oh, ooh! Wait, we were just talking about this.
CIAMBRIELLO:“Fly makes flea, makes haste makes waste, eight makes infinity.” That’s an Adrianne Lenker lyric. There are a million answers to this question.
GOLDBERG: Another one is from an Adrianne Lenker song called "Indiana." I love the line: “Standing at the edge of the story. At the foot of a palindrome.” It's so cool, she's so sick. That actually inspired us to use the word "palindrome" and write an actual palindrome into one of our songs!
CIAMBRIELLO: Yeah, we have a palindrome in our song "Moody." We say: “Pull up if I pull up, then we can both go home / You’ve got a way with your words, now I’m practicing palindromes.” Because "Pull up if I pull up" is a palindrome. It’s the same thing backwards and forward.
LUNA: Have you ever written a lyric that only one other specific person would understand, like an inside joke?
GOLDBERG: Oh...we speak like that constantly. But you mean other than the two of us?
LUNA: Yeah, like a call-out to someone else.
GOLDBERG: Lowkey, yeah.
CIAMBRIELLO: Which one?
GOLDBERG: I'm thinking of: “On my 17th in the parking lot / Called me selfless, was the greatest gift.” I know that person is gonna hear that and be like, “Oh, smack. That's about me.” Same with “You look up the things that I say.” "Two Collide" is also very specific.
CIAMBRIELLO: Yeah, I wouldn't tell my people which lyrics are about them because mine are kind of like an angry roast. (Laughs)
LUNA: I'm interested in the album art. You guys are on a bed, but you're out in nature. What's going on there? Do you want to talk about the concept behind that?
GOLDBERG: Yeah! Lucy Black, who is my cousin, is our creative visionary. She is very left-brain, very creative, and she’s done pretty much all of our visuals for us. When we told her that the album was gonna be called Fake Brave Life, she had this idea of taking us in our safest space. Which is on a bed, where we write all of our music. We started filming TikToks in the comfort of my bedroom, on my bed. She wanted to take that safe place and put it in an environment that is new and dangerous.So, she constructed a bed that looked like a replica of mine, and put it on a forklift. We were 17 feet in the air!
CIAMBRIELLO: It felt like we were 70 feet! I'm afraid of heights, I was so scared.
GOLDBERG: She basically wanted to take this really safe thing for us and make it dangerous as a play on "playing fake brave." You see us in a bed and you're like, “Oh, they're just in their bed singing songs,” and then you back up and realize, “Oh, they're in a tree 17 feet in the sky.” She has ideas that no one could ever replicate.
LUNA: The production is so cool on this record. Are there any hidden sounds or interesting textures that might go unnoticed by listeners, but are actually quite unique?
CIAMBRIELLO: In "Walls," there's a percussion-esque type sound, and it's literally my heavy-ass purse being dropped onto a kick drum. Other than that, we don't have too many other found-sound elements on the record. In "Big One," we do a cool little robot vocal moment that I really, really like.
LUNA: My last question is: Sasha, what is your specific favorite thing that Maia contributed to the record, and vice versa?
CIAMBRIELLO: Something I really admire about Sasha is that she is so good in the studio. That is something that I am still very much learning. We're both always learning, but she's very decisive and strong-willed in the studio. She has an incredible radar for knowing “Hmm, this isn't right” or “Yes, this is right.”
She is a vessel of unlimited ideas and is always willing to try something. She’ll suggest an idea that is so off-kilter and bizarre that no one else would ever think of and we'll be like, “Okay, let's try it.” And then it ends up really working! A lot of the coolest little aspects of the album bloomed from her having a random, strange tidbit of an idea, no matter how small, that made a massive difference in the grand scheme of the album.
GOLDBERG: Okay, I think mine for Maia stems from a specific period when we were writing. In general, I lean a little bit more pop and Maia leans a little bit more indie. Sometimes I have a hard time really grasping onto the purely indie things, and they can make me temporarily lose sight of who I am. We were trying to write, and I remember the session was going in a very indie direction that I wasn't really feeling. I remember being so frustrated that I think I actually cried. I was like, “Do we just not have the same style anymore?”
I left the room, came back, and Maia had the foundational idea for "Big One." It’s one of the last songs we wrote for the record, it's one of my absolute favorites and it is so us. It made me go, “Yeah, we still have it.”
CIAMBRIELLO: You gotta have a little inkling of doubt sometimes, just to let it bloom even more and prove that we still have that sauce.
GOLDBERG: Hell yeah.
LUNA: May you always have that sauce!
CIAMBRIELLO: Cheers to always having that sauce, 2026 and onwards.
