Q&A: Honey Revenge Returns Stronger and More Heartfelt Than Ever on Sophomore Album ‘Loving and Losing’
INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW
☆ BY AMANDA COLLINS ☆
TO TRULY LOSE, YOU MUST HAVE FIRST TRULY LOVED—a lesson Devin Papadol of Honey Revenge knows to be true. With the release of Honey Revenge’s sophomore album, Loving and Losing, Devin speaks to Luna about her own life experiences that, through grief and growth, informed much of the lyrical heart of the record.
Released September 18, Loving and Losing marks a progression for Honey Revenge, the full force pop-punk duo of vocalist Devin Papadol and guitarist Donny Lloyd. Guided by their own personal and musical evolutions, the duo builds from previous album Retrovision, now bringing forth more raw, intimate themes and sounds as they move forward in their careers.
Immersing listeners into themes of self-doubt, self-growth, fate, loss and love, the album’s production similarly has an exciting range, shifting seamlessly between high energy sing-alongs and darker atmospheres.
The duo’s growth from the adored Retrovision is seen on Loving and Losing’s “Freaks of Nature.”
“I think it has the essence of what I was really hoping for on this album, which is that darker, more twinkly Imogen Heap sounding vibe…I really wanted this album to be us branching out and trying new things, and I think we accomplished that. “Freaks of Nature” is one of the songs that I think was very crucial in that development,” Devin shares.
A keystone layer of Loving and Losing is Devin’s own exploration of grief following the loss of her beloved father.
“He was the inspiration for me to name the album Loving and Losing. Losing him was so much of the altering of my perspective on life…I think this is a moment where I'm actually getting down to the nitty gritty of how it feels to lose someone so important to you.” Devin shares. “I thought having him be the last voice you hear on the album was really, really important and touching for me.”
Loss is unavoidable, love is attainable, and Honey Revenge explores it all while bringing listeners 14 songs to dance, cry, rage and, ultimately, to remember the love beneath it all.
“It's part of life to experience pain and loss, but it's also part of life to experience love and growth and camaraderie, and that's what's beautiful about the human experience. You just gotta push through,” Devin shares.
Read below for our insightful conversation with Devin Papadol on Honey Revenge’s new album Loving and Losing.
LUNA: Congratulations on the upcoming release of your sophomore album, Loving and Losing! You just had an album release show last night in LA. How did it go and how are you feeling today?
PAPADOL: Yeah, it was more of a party celebration. So, that was really cool because I feel as though we don't really get to do those so often. A lot of what we do is a show. We played two acoustic songs. It was a very casual performance. We got to bring out a band that we're really good friends with. I got to host the party at my old job, Delicious Pizza, which was full circle and awesome because I've always had a lot of love for the staff there and the business itself. It was really, really fun. I partied very hard. I loved it. It was the perfect celebration.
LUNA: How did it feel holding the album release at your old job, Delicious Pizza?
PAPADOL: I think that what was really cool was that a lot of my old coworkers who were there and, even though they were supposed to be off yesterday, decided to work so they could reel it in with me. Delicious Pizza is owned by Delicious Vinyl, the hip hop label, and so they're very music oriented. They didn't have the room we hosted the party in when I worked there, so this is a new installation to the space. It's a room specifically for live music and parties so that was really awesome. They have the best eggplant parm in the whole damn town. All I cared about was eating an eggplant parm and celebrating this album.
LUNA: The album drops in just two days. Are you feeling excited or ready to get it out?
PAPADOL: Yeah. I think it's that. I think we're really ready. We've been a band for not a long time, but we've been touring on the same songs for so long, and I'm just so looking forward to it. I know Donny is as well looking forward to playing these new songs and figuring out how we want to have them experienced in a live setting. So much of this band is that we have fun bits and things we do for specific songs every show, and we've gotten to create those as they've gone from studio songs to concert songs. It's a very different dynamic, so I'm really stoked. My least favorite part of playing the new songs is not really knowing what to do—it's a little bit intimidating in that sense. But I’m really looking forward to having a new set list and doubling our discography.
LUNA: How exciting! Loving and Losing marks a shift in sound from your debut album, Retrovision. In an interview with New Noise Magazine, you described wanting to evolve “like Pokémon” and shift toward a “dark bedroom pop band” sound. What can fans expect from this evolution, and what drew you towards incorporating a darker sound?
PAPADOL: I think it's very much me trying to grow as a person and, for me, I have to conceptualize who I want to be. Retrovision felt very lighthearted and, despite some of the sadder themes, it felt very self-aware. For this album, I think we were very lost when we tried to make it, and Loving and Losing helped us find ourselves again in this new life that we're living.
I wrote almost all of Retrovision. I mean, I did write all of Retrovision when I was still working full time trying to make the band work, whereas now the band is my job. There's a pressure that is added to that, and there are extra layers of responsibility to making the songs be a certain way and making the song serve a certain purpose. I think [for] this album, I felt so out of sorts in the beginning of the process of writing, and I had to write what I wanted to be. I had to write affirmations into the lyrics so that I would believe them, because when you're working so hard to get something out into the world, you have to believe in it.
You have songs where I'm very clearly struggling with my identity and my purpose, which has always felt like it was writing music, and you hear it in “Trust Issues” where I don't even trust myself to do basic everyday things and I've lost my way a little bit. Then, you have songs like “Risk” where I'm complementing that worry that's in songs like "Trust Issues" and "Jealousy Monster" by being a little bit more open-minded to taking the risks and trusting the process. Same with "Inevitable”—just taking the losses with the wins and knowing that they complement one another and there was a reason for everything. That was certainly a big part of it. It was writing what I wanted to believe into the words so that I would get there, and I think that worked.
LUNA: You mentioned a pressure that you put on yourself during the writing of this album and balancing the band while also working to make the songs serve a certain purpose. How have you been dealing with that pressure to create what you envision for yourself?
PAPADOL: I think I found a lot of identity again. I have a tendency to make my whole identity my musical project because it feels like the only way to get everyone else on board is to just ride and drive it home and be 100% immersed in that. I think it served its purpose in the Retrovision era. People know us for our aesthetic, and they know us for our easygoing, fun attitudes.
But I think something that helped me cope with the struggling with writing was finding my identity outside of the band. I got really into working out, which I've never been consistent in my whole life. I got very consistent with journaling and staying off my phone first thing in the morning almost every day. I rediscovered my love for reading. I think all these things that helped me get out of my head a little bit and turn my brain off without looking at a device and consuming media that is gonna add to that pressure that I was already feeling has really helped me.
LUNA: I love that. It brings me to a question I had: what was the biggest setback while creating the album, and how did you overcome it? Was it this sense of pressure, or was there a different hurdle you both ran into?
PAPADOL: Donny and I were not getting along at the beginning, and we really powered through that. Now I think we're stronger as a team than we've ever been. But I think that was probably the biggest setback was that we just could not align our visions for what the record was supposed to be. We did a handful of writing sessions early on in the process. They call it “speed dating,” where they send you in with a bunch of different producers and writers to test out who you want to do the full record. I think we got very burnt out because we were doing those speed dating sessions in between intensive touring, and we were very, very burnt. We did not get to take breaks. Really, it was just back to back, and it's really, for me especially, a struggle because it's a super different part of my brain, the touring versus the creative. Not being able to take that break, I think, and having to shift gears just absolutely burnt me out and pushed me to a breaking point.
There was just a period of time where we came out of those speed dating sessions, I remember it was when we were on our tour with the Stand Atlantic in the UK and Europe in the fall of 2024, and Donny was of the mindset that we had already written the whole album in those sessions. I was on a completely different wavelength. In my brain, we hadn't even technically started actual album writing yet. We had just been doing creative sessions to see where we were at, and we were just not on the same page. That was definitely a big setback, and I think it is why it took so long to get this record out because we were not in a place to be a cohesive team. We were not in a place to collaborate because we weren't even able to agree on the most simple of things, and I think it made us much stronger and made our communication that much better. But it did not feel good in the moment.
LUNA: That would feel entirely stressful. How did you both build that bridge between each other as a duo?
PAPADOL: A lot of tough conversations. Finding the right producer was very helpful because Donny [is] not as much of a world-builder in that sense. They care so deeply about the sonic elements and the guitar, but they're not a lyrics person. For me, I think about what I'm trying to express through words so much, and that's why we make a great team. It's why we make great songs, but we needed someone to bridge that gap, and that was Danen Reed who came in.
I'm so thankful that we met him in those speed dating sessions near the end. We didn't meet until right before the Loving and Losing tour, which was last summer. From there, I feel like we got almost all the songs. I think there's maybe four songs on the record that he didn't write with us and didn't start with us, but he finished them all with us. There were songs that we were very passionate about early on that we could not get other writers and producers on board with because they couldn't really see the vision, and Danen was way more open and excited about [them]. I think sometimes you run into this thing where you start a song with someone and someone else doesn't want to finish what someone [else] has started, and there's this understandable disconnect because they're not attached to it because they didn't have their hand in it. Whereas Danen was just happy to be there and happy to be a part of the process and happy to be a part of our journey. He really came in and swooped in and saved the day.
LUNA: Love that. It sounds like what you and Donny don’t have on your own, the other provides.
PAPADOL: Exactly. We always joke that Donny's the honey and I'm the revenge in our personalities, and it's really funny because that's exactly what it is. The things I don't understand and don't really think about, they do.
LUNA: What song off of Loving and Losing would you say is closest to your heart?
PAPADOL: It's such a great question. I'm really excited for different songs to be heard. I think the obvious one that I stay away from listening to, because it's so hard for me, is “Loving and Losing,” the title track. I remember last night at the release party we played the album for everyone, in the background after we did our acoustic performance, and I remember I was like, "Oh, I have to leave because the album ends with a voicemail from my dad who passed away right before Retrovision came out.” He was the inspiration for me to name the album Loving and Losing. Losing him was so much of the altering of my perspective on life. So, I think that one is very, very vulnerable.
I make a lot of jokes. I think everyone's very used to me laughing through my grief and having to be funny about it, because that's just how I am as a person. I think this is a moment where I'm actually getting down to the nitty-gritty of how it feels to lose someone so important to you. I'm also really excited for people to hear “Freaks of Nature” because I think it's a side of our band that maybe they haven't heard before, which is that lovey-dovey side of me. I also have never really been a fan of love songs, and then I went and called an album Loving and Losing, which I feel like you have to have the love song. That's half the battle. That's half of that whole concept of the record. So I'm really excited to hear what people think about that one.
LUNA: Love it. To lose, you have to have loved at first. That is beautiful. On that note, the inclusion of the extremely special voicemail feels like it sheds light on the album as a whole. Would you like to tell us about your choice to include the voicemail and have the album end with it?
PAPADOL: My dad was my biggest fan, and I think lots of parents might not be the most supportive of their kid pursuing music because it's not necessarily the most sustainable or sturdy career choice, and I'm very lucky. Both of my parents were creatives in their youth. My mom was a professional ballerina. She's a choreographer. She's an artist manager. My dad moved to California to become an actor, and though he didn't end up acting around the time I was born, I think he wanted us to really succeed at whatever we wanted to accomplish.
I think that's very clear in that voicemail, which was left for me after I had a bad show. It's so funny because he left voicemails for me like that all the time. I always joke that he would leave voicemails like he knew he was just gonna die one day. Like he had the foresight, and he always kept voicemails, so I always saved them. So glad that I did, ‘cause that's all I have left, and in that song there's a lyric that says, “I owed you a song.” He always gave me shit for not writing songs about him, which is funny because I tend to lean towards writing diss tracks and angry songs. So, I think he expected in my teenage years that I would write some song about being misunderstood by my father and like a “fuck you song” about my dad, which is funny only because we had such a great relationship and I don't think there was ever really too many points in my life where I had negative feelings towards him, even when I probably should have.
That's my way of writing. Finally doing it and being upset that it took that to happen. I thought having him be the last voice you hear on the album was really, really important and touching for me, and I'm personally a really big fan of people that end albums with the gentle, softer song. I think we're also a band that doesn't have a lot of those songs, so it feels like it really leaves you…I mean, it's a heartbreaking song.
LUNA: Absolutely, when I first heard the end of the album, it left me with the impression of reminding me of what's most important in life. Thank you so much for sharing about that incredibly special inclusion of your dad.
PAPADOL: Oh my god, thanks for asking. I love talking about him.
LUNA: You brought up the song “Freaks of Nature,” which I really loved. To me “Freaks of Nature” feels like a beautiful exploration of love, and it feels like its meaning could even extend beyond romantic or platonic love. Can you tell readers more about the story behind the song?
PAPADOL: Yeah! So, you brought it up earlier, that you cannot lose something without having loved it. For me, I was very anti-love. I didn't really believe in romantic love, but I also value and am very passionate about my friendships and my platonic relationships. I'm a person that craves human connection very deeply, and the people I keep in my life are just so important to me. But I have that song, my favorite song on our first album, where I say "feels like love, but that's something I don't believe in,” and it's totally changed because I wrote that song and then immediately found my soulmate, which feels like it comes to you when you immediately swear it off. I really had to sit down with that one.
When we wrote it, we did not expect that to be the song that we were gonna write that day. It was the song that we brought in my best friend Areli Castro, who is also an artist, KiNG MALA, and she was a great compliment because she has such a way with words, and I think she is such a powerful lyricist. She's also not really in the alternative rock space. She's a pop artist, which I really liked. I think the sound of that song accidentally sounds a lot like one of my favorite Halsey songs, which is “Graveyard,” and we didn't even realize it until the next day because it's in a similar time signature. That's so funny because Halsey's one of my favorite artists of all time, and I really just love that song. It's about my boyfriend, and I think it's probably one of his favorites, but I love the vocoder chorus. I think it has the essence of what I was really hoping for on this album, which is that darker, more twinkly Imogen Heap sounding vibe. It ties in really well with the song "Inevitable,” which is also on the record and an oddball track for us. I really wanted this album to be us branching out and trying new things, and I think we accomplished that. “Freaks of Nature” is one of the songs that I think was very crucial in that development.
LUNA: Completely. On the topic of branching into new sounds, I noticed a specifically new sound for Honey Revenge which is the acoustic, intimate moments on both “Freaks in Nature” and in the album's closing song, “Loving and Losing.” What did it feel like to incorporate these more stripped-back, acoustic and intimate moments throughout the album?
PAPADOL: We definitely went into this record thinking very much about the live aspect. It wasn't something we had to even consider when we were at Retrovision because we were really not a touring band yet, and it just goes to show you how much we've grown and how much life we've lived since the conception and release of Retrovision. Something we were doing on our set lists was having a little break where we do our slower songs, and even our slower songs that we had out at that point felt like they weren't even that slow. Actually, they stopped and started in a way that was really cool on the recording, but was a little bit hard to maneuver in a performance aspect. I still love those songs and have love for those songs, but I didn't want those to be our only slow songs.
I feel like it's really important for me to be able to stand still on stage. I do a lot of running around and, sometimes I, (in the back of my mind, and I've been told this isn't true), but I worry that I'm losing my sense of being a vocalist and maintaining a good singing voice. I get so caught up in the performance and the connection and the dancing and being a rock ‘n’ roll star, and like jumping up and down, and I think for songs like “Freaks of Nature,” “Loving and Losing,” there isn't this need for this glitz and this glam and this jumping up and down. I want people to feel like they're getting a well-rounded experience when they come to see us live.
I like to think that for some of my favorite artists, I go, I dance, I push people around, I have a very upbeat, energetic experience. But then, at the same time, those same artists bring me to my knees and make me cry and make me feel things and make me question my life and my experiences. I really wanted that musically and to be something that we can tie into our performance because we are such a touring band, and we are such a live band. That's such a large part of why we do what we do, and so I'm really looking forward to getting to put those in the set at some point.
LUNA: “Butterfly Effect” explores fate and feeling unable to outrun fate with the lyric “you can never outrun the butterfly.” Was there a specific symbolic butterfly in your life or a time where you felt unable to outrun your circumstances?
PAPADOL: It's funny because I recorded and documented most of this album process to edit for our Patreon, and I didn't remember this until I was editing it. But Donny and I both showed up to the studio wearing clothing with butterflies on it that day, and I didn't even think about it. I absentmindedly wore my hat that has a butterfly. They wore a shirt that had a butterfly on it, and I came in wanting to write a song about the butterfly effect. I just love the concept that everything happens, and it is a chain reaction to something else.
Our whole band is the butterfly effect, from the inception and founding of this project, because Donny moved to California from Georgia because they lost their dad, which is a terrible life-altering experience. But it led them to moving here, and them messaging my band at the time on Instagram asking for advice on the music scene, which is also such a funny extra layer because Donny's come out of their shell a lot but, knowing them back then, they are a very different person than me in the sense that they are very shy and they will never necessarily reach out to someone they don't know. It's so crazy to think what possessed them to just do that, and I wonder how different our lives would be if they hadn't moved here, if they hadn't sent that DM, if I hadn't opened that DM. It's wild to think about every alternate reality where some little moment didn't take place and change the trajectory of our lives drastically.
That's like one of my favorite songs on the record because it's so energetic, and I love that it's a little bit ethereal in that mindset. It's more about the universe. That's lyrically one of my favorite components of the album and, because I'm so big on lyric and worldbuilding, it's so cool that that song made the album and feeds the narrative that I wanted it to have.
LUNA: Loving and Losing’s album artwork maintains the purple theme Honey Revenge has become known and adored for. Can you take us into the process behind the worldbuilding for this album?
PAPADOL: Yeah, the album artwork was all an idea I came up with before I even knew what the album was going to be called. I have a lot of birthmark moles all over me, and there's more and more every time I check my body. I always had the idea of taking them and connecting them into little constellations, like playing connect the dots with the moles on my back. They're called beauty marks. That's what I was told by my mom, and I think that calling them that gave me such a boost of confidence. I could have alternatively been very insecure about them and wanted to cover them up, whereas now, like when I put on makeup, I make sure to darken them on top of the makeup so you can still see them. I'm very proud of them, and I think the whole album is about the little bits and pieces of you and the connecting those dots and the stars, and the world and the universe, and how it all plays into each other.
The idea [was] making a universe out of my own skin, and having my partner fake tattoo. He does tattoos, so he has the stenciling. The title was not photoshopped on my back, it was actually put on my skin like a tattoo, and I think the imagery, when you pay attention to that, and combine it with what I'm talking about on those songs on the record, is special. I'm excited to watch people catch on to that and realize that, because I'm really proud of how all of that came to life from a little note in my phone.
Many years ago, we worked with Kay, who's an incredible photographer, and she's done all of our single and album artwork for the band. We have such a great working dynamic where we just hop on a FaceTime call and talk out the vision. I send her a song, I send her the album, I send her what my ideas are, and she'll take something I'm thinking about and make it so much better because she just has the brain for that. I have the idea, and she has the actual ability to make it come to life, so it's really cool working with fellow creatives that get you. I'm just so stoked how it all worked out.
LUNA: The idea of the album artwork coming from your skin to the cosmic, and the spiritual, micro to macro idea leads to the the question that I have: if there's one central takeaway that you'd like listeners to carry away with them from Loving and Losing, what would you hope it would be?
PAPADOL: I think the biggest thing is that even if it doesn't feel like it in the moment, you are exactly where you are supposed to be, and it will all work out how it's supposed to be. I think that, whether that's professional or personal, it's part of life to experience pain and loss, but it's also part of life to experience love and growth and camaraderie, and that's what's beautiful about the human experience. You just gotta push through. I think the hard times make the good so much more valuable, and make you recognize how much you're thankful for them. I just think you're exactly where you're supposed to be, is the message that I want people to take away from Loving and Losing.
LUNA: As we wrap up, you've got the release of Loving and Losing coming up soon, as well as a tour this fall with Dead Poet Society. How do you feel about everything on the horizon for yourself and Honey Revenge?
PAPADOL: I'm really excited and curious. There's songs like “Jealousy Monster” where I've struggled with comparison and letting it steal my joy and steal my drive because it feels like someone else's win is my loss. Which is just such a terrible way to look at it, and so [many] of the opportunities we have or haven't gotten [is] because of our discography.
Getting to extend that out, I'm excited to see the fans we make from this tour because I do feel like Dead Poet Society is kind of a wild card band that maybe people wouldn't have expected us to tour with, but it makes so much sense because I think they are the epitome of a band that is doing something cool and fresh and different. I've always been so impressed with them and influenced by them since I discovered them. The fact that a band like that would want to tour with us is an ego boost in itself, and I'm really stoked to be on tour with our friends in Broadside because they did our first tour ever, and getting to tour with them for the first tour of this album cycle is really great, and full circle as well.
So much of this album is about this full circle cycle and I think, again, it's meant to be. Everything is happening the way it should. But, as for feeling, I'm just curious. I'm curious what the takeaway from that tour is going to be. I'm curious what opportunities it'll lead to in the future, and I'm just excited to see where it all goes. I feel very at peace in a way that I feel like I haven't in a long time. In the sense that, as much as I want for things, and I still get jealous, I'm just not as worried. I feel like I have such an amazing support system. I have an amazing partner. I have two very cute cats who are sleeping. I have my health. I have a great apartment. I have great friends. I have my family. I have a stability that I didn't have when we released Retrovision. So I'm just really curious to see where it takes us, and I'm hoping it'll take us farther than we've already been fortunate enough to go.
LUNA: Yay! So, maybe it’s fair to say that you feel like you're in the right place at the right time?
PAPADOL: I think if I'm going to preach that, I have to believe. Like I said, it's an affirmation. If I say it enough, eventually it embodies me.
