Q&A: little luna Changes her Perspective on “upward spiral”
INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW
☆ BY SHEVON GREENE ☆
Photo by Jordan Kelsey Knight
ONE OF THE HARDEST PARTS OF GROWING UP—is realizing progress doesn’t always feel like progress while you’re inside of it. On “upward spiral,” out today, little luna reframes that feeling entirely.
Inspired by the realization that circles only appear flat when viewed from above, “upward spiral” transforms stagnancy into a softer message of hope and proof that growth is still happening, even when it doesn’t feel visible yet. The immediate upbeat production contrasts the song’s deeper emotional tension and balances self-awareness with cautious optimism.
During our conversation, little luna was careful to separate the song’s message from toxic positivity, explaining that “upward spiral” isn’t about pretending everything is okay so much as it is about learning how to stop working against yourself emotionally. She spoke openly about balancing three jobs while funding her art independently, describing the “messiness in between” as one of the hardest emotional spaces to navigate. Even while discussing burnout, uncertainty and survival, her perspective remained grounded in trusting instinct and reconnecting with herself creatively.
Five years after quitting her job to pursue music for the first time, little luna’s upcoming EP whenever we get to wherever we’re going (out in October) still feels like an expanded chapter in her universe, just with a clearer understanding of herself within it. While her music has always centered around connecting back to her “truest self,” this era feels that much more grounded and self-aware.
We caught up with little luna to talk about nonlinear growth, trusting your gut and finding meaning in the messiness between where you are and where you’re headed. Keep reading on for more.
Photo by Jordan Kelsey Knight
LUNA: We’ve talked before about how your music is always centered around connecting back to your truest self, of course. But when listening to “upward spiral,” it definitely feels like a more mature version of that idea. Do you think your understanding of what that actually means has changed since your earlier releases? How has that evolved?
LITTLE LUNA: Yes, that is such an astute observation. Even though, in the large scheme of things, I have no idea what I’m doing—and I don’t really know if anyone does beyond a day-to-day basis—I do feel like my connection to myself and what feels right in my gut, or doesn’t feel right in my gut, has strengthened. And by “right,” I just mean right for me.
I do feel like I see myself—who I am and how I operate in the world—with clearer eyes now, and “upward spiral” definitely touches on that. Even with the pre-chorus saying, “I don’t do what I’m told,” no one in my life is literally telling me “do this” or “don’t do this,” but I think so many of us feel this societal pressure to do things a certain way. “upward spiral” has that clarity of, “No, I know who I am, and I know what I’m doing on a day-to-day basis.”
LUNA: It’s a really good reminder, honestly. I think it’s going to be a really meaningful track for people who are on their own journeys too, to reflect on and apply to their own lives.
LITTLE LUNA: Absolutely. And I think there’s a whole conversation around toxic positivity, which I understand. Minimizing people’s pain or experiences isn’t what we’re going for here. What I’m going for with “upward spiral” is really just how I talk to myself.
I think anyone who listens to my music by now knows it’s okay to be sad, upset, angry and to fight for things to be different than they are. Specifically with this song, it’s about recognizing when you’re downward spiraling in a way that’s cathartic versus when you’re actually working against yourself. It’s not like, “We’re all just in an upward spiral.” The world is literally on fire right now. It’s more about your own personal life—when you’re rabbit-holing your thoughts in an unhealthy way—and asking yourself if you can flip that into an upward spiral instead. It’s really just a lens and perspective through which you see yourself, not trying to diminish the reality around you or the world you exist within.
LUNA: Definitely, and I think it translates really well. I don’t think it gives off toxic positivity at all. It really feels more like, “How can you apply this perspective to your own life?”
LITTLE LUNA: Thank you. I mean, all the time when I’m writing, it’s from myself and my own lived experience and perspective. So that’s definitely the goal: that it translates to people on an individual level rather than becoming some fix-all mantra for the world around us, because the world is not a fix-all situation.
LUNA: Was there a specific moment when that perspective shift clicked for you emotionally, or did it happen more naturally?
LITTLE LUNA: Unfortunately, it’s interesting; certain memories of mine are extremely clear, and others I’m like, “I don’t really know how I arrived at that conclusion.” I just suddenly realized it one day. I don’t remember the exact setting, but I do remember having this very clear thought based on this visual of a cone shape. It’s only when you’re looking down at yourself that you think you’re going in circles. It’s actually impossible to go in a circle because you’re different every day and life is different every day.
I remember seeing some visual of a cone and having that perspective shift where I realized, “Oh wow, I’m not actually stuck.” I was feeling that way while working multiple jobs, being an independent artist, staying in the hustle of everything and feeling like I was going in circles—only to realize that’s impossible. I am moving upward.
LUNA: It’s cool that you’re still able to go back to that cone visual too.
LITTLE LUNA: Listen, I had no idea what was going on in geometry or math classes growing up, but in adulthood that cone visual is so strong for me (laughs).
LUNA: Now math has a different meaning.
LITTLE LUNA: Exactly. I actually think I’d enjoy taking a geometry class now because the dimensions of it all—the dimensions of consciousness—are really interesting to me now.
Photo by Jordan Kelsey Knight
LUNA: I also wanted to touch more on how you mentioned feeling stuck in circles within relationships, your career and self-growth while writing this EP. Looking back now, do you think that frustration was necessary for you to get to this version of yourself creatively?
LITTLE LUNA: I hate to say yes, but yes. Mainly because of people I look up to in my life. There’s that Thich Nhat Hanh quote: “No mud, no lotus.” Again, not talking about the global world stage, but on your own internal journey, there’s something to be said for not fully understanding joy if you haven’t experienced sorrow. Or not experiencing fulfillment without first experiencing frustration or lack. I don’t know if my frustration specifically led to creating this art, but I know it’s part of being human. And my art is very human.
LUNA: I know at the time you were balancing three jobs while creating this project, which honestly feels really reflective of what a lot of independent artists are going through right now. How did juggling survival and creativity affect the emotional world of the EP, if it did at all?
LITTLE LUNA: I don’t know if it affected the music itself because music is always the space where it feels right to feel all of the feelings, for lack of a better explanation. There’s actually a lyric in the song that says, “It’s not about the here or there, it’s about the space and the messiness that’s in between.” I think the hardest part is the in-between days when I’m not actively creating. I’m always editing videos or posting on social media, but outside of that, it’s the days at my other jobs that feel hardest.
Those moments didn’t necessarily inform the music itself, but they informed the emotional messiness around it. Just being like, “Nope, I know music is what I’m supposed to be doing, so I’ve gotta keep going. I’ve gotta go do this job I don’t want to do because it allows me to make the art I do want to make.”
LUNA: Yep. That’s so real and honestly so relatable to so many people, including myself.
LITTLE LUNA: Absolutely. And depending on where you live and when you’re alive, it’s really common right now for people to have multiple jobs and feel stretched thin. That’s not what my ideal society looks like. I think working is good for us. I think doing things that aren’t necessarily our favorite is good for us. But I don’t think having multiple jobs just to survive and maybe take one vacation a year is how we’re meant to live. I really believe in a society where our basic needs—food, shelter, healthcare—are met, and then everything beyond that can support your passions, whether your job is your passion or not. I think a lot of people, especially in our generation, are feeling the weight of working so much for not a ton of return. So I do hope this song feels cathartic for anyone in that space.
LUNA: We’ve talked before about how you write from a very intuitive, reflective place. Did this EP come together similarly, or were you more intentional this time around about the story you wanted to tell?
LITTLE LUNA: It’s interesting because the EP is called whenever we get to wherever we’re going, and to me the songs don’t necessarily have one cohesive through-line. They are me figuring out wherever I’m going in real time. The through-line is that they’re all stories and words I genuinely mean. Every song except one has live drums, every song has guitar, so there’s still a through-line sonically and artistically in how I enjoy creating. But I think the title really speaks to the variation on the EP. Lyrically, it’s just a dive into figuring things out as we go.
Photo by Jordan Kelsey Knight
LUNA: That leads into another question I had about the sonics and production of the EP. Did you want the lyrics and themes to translate into the production too, or did you have a specific sound in mind?
LITTLE LUNA: I’m at the point in my career where I know what I want things to sound like, but I’m still working with a ton of different people. A lot of artists go into the studio with the same producers and co-writers for an entire body of work, but because I’m always working other jobs, I’ve mostly just been creating with whatever time and resources I have available in real time. So there hasn’t really been this process of sitting down and planning an entire EP in advance with specific collaborators. I’m just figuring it out as I go. But because I know what I want things to sound like, that becomes the through-line sonically.
One day I’d love to plan a writing trip and intentionally make a whole project with specific collaborators. That would be a dream. But right now, I’ve just been writing honest songs in sessions whenever I can, and the songs that made the EP were the ones that felt strongest from last year.
And honestly, part of that is financial too. Every song costs money to write, produce, mix, master, photograph, make videos for—everything is expensive. So this EP is both the songs I loved most and the number of songs I could realistically afford to release.
LUNA: I think it’s really helpful for people to hear the actual work and financial reality behind even putting out an EP.
LITTLE LUNA: I’m really blessed because everyone I work with gives me the friend rate. They’re all incredibly talented producers, mixers and mastering engineers who are much further along in their careers, and I really value those relationships. Maybe what I can afford to pay right now isn’t what they’d make working with a Billboard artist, but they’re still willing to work with me in these beginning phases. And one day I hope I can pay everyone the full rates they deserve.
LUNA: I also wanted to ask about collaborators. You wrote “upward spiral” the same day you met Devin Hoffman and Haleigh Bowers. Did working with new collaborators change your songwriting approach or creative confidence at all?
LITTLE LUNA: It didn’t really change how I write; it just made me a better writer. Working with Haleigh Bowers feels like taking a masterclass in songwriting. I came into “upward spiral” and another song on the EP called “a song for peace” already knowing the concepts and some lyric ideas, and Haleigh completely understood the vision. She never tried to change the heart of it. She just helped me fully bring it to life. She’s such a strong writer that I genuinely feel my own writing leveled up by working with her.
Photo by Jordan Kelsey Knight
LUNA: That’s awesome when you can collaborate with someone and genuinely feel yourself becoming better through their expertise.
LITTLE LUNA: Absolutely. And honestly, there still aren’t enough women in music production spaces. There are more female songwriters than female producers, mixers, mastering artists and etcetera, but the ratio still isn’t even close to how many men are in those spaces. So it was really wonderful working with another incredible female songwriter. And actually, Devin Hoffman was the one who suggested bringing Haleigh in. The original co-writer for the session had to cancel, and he was like, “I know someone you’re gonna really connect with.” I really believe in serendipity. I don’t believe in coincidences. The fact that Haleigh ended up in that session for “upward spiral” feels completely meant to be.
LUNA: I also wanted to ask about the title whenever we get to wherever we’re going. How did that phrase originally come to you?
LITTLE LUNA: I’m a total Notes app junkie. My Notes app is filled with everything I don’t want to forget. I don’t remember exactly where I was, but either I said it or one of my best friends said it in conversation: “Well, whenever we get to wherever we’re going.” And I immediately thought, “Oh my gosh, that’s an incredible album title.” So I wrote it down years ago, and then when this EP came together, I realized that’s what this project is called. And honestly, no one on my management team questioned it or pushed back, which is the joy of being independent. There’s no label telling me no.
LUNA: It really does perfectly summarize what the EP feels like too.
LITTLE LUNA: Thank you. Someone recently asked me if there was going to be a title track and I was like, “No, there’s no song called whenever we get to wherever we’re going—that’s just what the EP is.”
LUNA: Five years after starting music for the first time, what do you think this current version of yourself would say to the version of you from back then?
LITTLE LUNA: I think I’d tell her that even though she doesn’t know what she’s doing technically, she already knows everything she needs to know within herself. I didn’t know how to technically write songs, upload songs, direct videos, edit videos or do any of this stuff. I’ve learned all of that along the way. But internally, I already knew what I needed to know artistically. I think I’d just tell my younger self: “You already know. You’re okay. You know what you’re doing with the art.”
LUNA: What do you hope listeners take away from “upward spiral” during periods where they feel stuck themselves?
LITTLE LUNA: There’s a lyric in the chorus that says, “It doesn’t ever matter where I am, I always have a map right on the back of my hand.” Personally, when I feel stuck, it definitely doesn’t feel like I have a map. But I think for anybody feeling stuck externally, go do something you’ve never done before. It doesn’t have to cost money—just break your routine somehow. Go sit in a different park. Eat alone somewhere. Take a fitness class. Talk to someone in an elevator. Just do something unfamiliar.
And internally, that map on the back of your hand is your gut. Even if you make a decision and it doesn’t lead you where you expected, making the decision from your gut with the information you had at the time will always move you forward. It may not lead to the perfect answer, but it will get you unstuck.
LUNA: Once the single is out, what else can people look forward to over the summer leading up to the EP?
LITTLE LUNA: Leading up to the EP there will be two more songs released, at least one music video and at least one fan interaction event in LA. Hopefully there’ll also be either a tour or a few one-off shows in October around the EP release.
