Q&A: Sophia Shen and Swell Foop release new EP ‘Dead Weight,’ ahead of debut album
INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW
☆ BY NICO CHODOR ☆
SWELL FOOP SOLIDIFIES ITS WELL-EARNED PLACE IN THE BAY AREA INDIE ROCK SCENE WITH NEW EP DEAD WEIGHT—a collaboration between the band and co-songwriter Sophia Shen’s solo project. Newly graduated from the college house show scene in Berkeley, California, Shen has worked hard to shed literal “dead weight” on this latest installment, which Miranda Loyer (fellow lead guitarist, bassist, and vocalist) says feels “more indicative of where we’re going,” perhaps toward a more expansive sonic vocabulary. Together with Tiena Elias ripping on drums, Loyer and Shen employ dynamic harmony like no other on this EP, something made known on Swell Foop’s debut EP Don’t Spare Me, released last November.
What sets Dead Weight apart is the earnestness with which Swell Foop guides Shen through lyrical deliverance, as they move through betrayal from their “Closest Friend,” turned “Worst Person in the World.” Everything this person touches turns to dust, screams Shen on “Dead Weight,” the band’s first ever hardcore release; while track three “Pandora’s Box” shines with layered harmonies, and then closes with a flip on the original chorus. “It used to be, ‘but I still want you / and it’s a curse / I’d show up at your doorstep once again if you would try to make it work / but you're long gone / telling me how good things are while I just play along,’ except this never happened, isn’t true, and doesn’t feel like me anymore now that I’ve moved on,” Shen tells me. Instead, track three now concludes with the refusal to let this person back in, which Sophia says “completely changes the message of the song and was super important to the integrity of the EP.”
“Worst Person in the World,” Dead Weight’s finale, is bar none my favorite track. Against the gentle strum of their guitar, Shen's writing peaks on the first lines alone: “You’ve grown cold to me / I know it’s true / when did you grow cold to me? / I haven’t a clue.” When playing this song live, Loyer backs Sophia’s vocals on “you’re the worst,” in the next stanza, and the instrumental break which follows comes up more than once to seal this chapter in Shen’s life. “I know you’re hungry” marks their final words on the matter, for they no longer have time for those not satisfied by the fullness they have to offer.
Dead Weight is wrought from feelings of intense rejection, misogyny, and self-doubt, that Shen speaks on experiencing in their last relationship, and bandmates Elias and Loyer resonate with as AFAB/POC up-and-coming musicians. Swell Foop holds Shen’s hand, as they let go of what does not serve them, and embark into their more riot grrrl-leaning next chapter.
Read Luna’s interview with the band below, as they unpack making music long distance, refusing to stay quiet, and taking this project more seriously ahead of their upcoming debut album.
LUNA: Good morning! I’m so excited to finally be interviewing you! I am such a big fan of Don’t Spare Me, and the last verse of “All the Way Down” (I’m not lost / But I’m not loved / I won’t sublimate myself / And I won’t play along) is something I hold very dear. How does this new EP, and the song “Dead Weight” in particular, transcend that first record for you all? And how do you find balance on something that is more personal to just Sophia on Dead Weight?
LOYER: Well, Don’t Spare Me was written by both Sophia and myself. And on this EP, the songs are all written by Sophia, all sung by Sophia, which was sort of the result of multiple different factors. Sophia had finished writing this great work of art, and wanted to get it out into the world. I also just wasn’t doing a lot of writing that year, and so I didn’t really have any material to offer for a new EP. It was extra perfect that we had this basically finished body of work, in terms of writing. And it just sort of needed a facelift, in terms of production.
From the start, I was very willing to put this forward under Swell Foop’s name. There was no question for me of whether I was proud of it or not, and so that’s kind of the balance that we struck here. We’re very willing to support Sophia, who’s like, the greatest friend ever. I wanted to facilitate the production of their work any way possible.
LUNA: What does collaboration look like between the three of you? After working together for four years, how do you find balance as a trio?
ELIAS: I mean, it’s kind of a stereotype for drummers to be very booked and busy in multiple bands, and I definitely fall into that category. So, I find it really important to keep a lot of communication with Sophia and Miranda. I want to make sure that I’m contributing to the band, and not just taking for granted all of the amazing work that they do behind the scenes, be it publicity, songwriting, etc. I show up as much as I possibly can, because I love what we’re doing, and I love the music that we’re creating. I definitely prioritize Swell Foop projects even when I’m super busy with whatever other random side projects I have going on, and I feel totally comfortable telling them when I need a break.
LUNA: Now that you have all graduated from Cal (congrats by the way), what has it been like making music long distance?
SHEN: Well, fortunately, the aspect of what we’re doing that doesn’t require us to be in person together is the social media content that we’re making, and that’s also what is turning out a lot of results and exciting new leads for us. We’re basically posting every single day, and that’s something that we can do independently of one another, but also our songwriting process since the beginning has oftentimes transpired over the phone. One of us will write something at 11 P.M. and then text it to the other, so it was already kind of set up to be okay to songwrite from afar. We’re lucky enough to have Miranda back in town right now, and I’m so overjoyed that we can all be together and play shows, and make the most of this time.
LOYER: Absolutely, yeah. We have these periods of high activity when I can make it up to the bay. I moved home to SoCal after graduation, but I am trying to move back here, so hopefully the long distance will come to an end soon.
SHEN: I think that it honestly, probably contributes to our professionalism in a way, because we know when we need to focus. And we’ve been able to play shows once a month or so, to get the best draw, and keep people interested in our music because of Miranda being so willing to make the drive.
ELIAS: Yeah, we owe everything to Miranda’s dedication and willingness to travel. It’s huge.
LOYER: Thank god (laughs).
LUNA: The social media grind is so admirable. Speaking of which, Miranda, I really enjoyed the Instagram reel you posted about which movies you felt lined up with each song on Dead Weight. You picked the movie Carrie for “Dead Weight.” Can you walk me through that connection?
LOYER: Totally. I think the shock of what happens at the end is what relates to the song “Dead Weight.” Most of Carrie is this teen drama where the main character is getting bullied at school, until she goes crazy at the very end and kills everybody. And I think that’s how “Dead Weight” stands out in our discography. It’s a hardcore song. And most of that movie is not at all hardcore. She’s very quiet and shy, and then she, like, fucking kills everybody at the end of that movie.
ELIAS: “Dead Weight” is our Carrie moment.
LOYER: Exactly.
SHEN: This song is a complete refusal of that “quiet, shy” indie band label. I was just telling my mom that “Dead Weight” pays homage to this lineage of riot grrrl music and the Bay Area hardcore and punk scenes that have influenced and inflected us. It shows we have range, and diverse influences, and that we have an ear out for things. It also helps the EP not fall flat. And it’s like, well what’s going to disrupt that from happening?
LUNA: Your Carrie moment.
SHEN: Right, this crazy, awesome song that’s going to be so fun to perform live. It feels cathartic, and it feels necessary, even though it may seem out of place.
LUNA: Yeah, I mean, it was so exciting for me as a listener, who’s used to seeing a very different side of you. I’m really looking forward to whenever I do get to hear it played live. And Tiena, you do the countdown at the beginning of that track!
ELIAS: That was awesome. That was Sophia’s idea, and I was so honored to have my voice be included. My voice hasn’t been on anything released ever. It took a lot of takes, and a lot of moving around the room, different distances from the mic, etc., to get the right kind of sound that we wanted. That was an exciting addition that we just kind of added at the end after we had already recorded the rest of the song.
SHEN: I wanted to say earlier, when we were talking about all of our contributions to the EP, Tiena, you rock so much. You’re so flexible and skilled. Either one of us can be like, “Oh, we think it should sound like this [beatboxes],” and then you actually turn that into a drum part. On this EP, we had another drummer record it originally, and so we presented these demos for Tiena to polish, and those drum parts came out fucking flawless. They are so good, and you’re a genius. Don’t you ever be selling yourself short.
ELIAS: Thanks, Sophia. I am proud of the drum parts on this. I feel like for Don’t Spare Me, it was my first recording experience like that. I was very new to the whole feeling of having to do multiple takes to get it perfect. It ended up coming out really well, but for Dead Weight, I showed up to the studio knowing exactly what to expect. I really felt proud of how that recording session went.
LUNA: I was just about to ask how working with producer Ivan Garcia on that first project differs from working on this one.
SHEN: “Dead Weight” in particular was so fun to record with him, because Ivan is more of a rock guy in terms of the music that he performs. Also, he’s often mixing music for local punk and hardcore bands, so it was really nice to have somebody by our side who’s well-versed in that world. Because I want to be taken seriously, like I wanted this song to come out and to really reach a new audience who resonates with us and sees it as quality work. And so he helped write that drum outro part, at least in the original recording that we did. He helped with recording some of the guitar tracks as well. It’s been really cool to work with him, as a songwriting partner, and also as a producer, and that’s something we totally want to keep going in the future for the album that we will be recording hopefully soon.
LOYER: I think it feels different, also, because as much as we love Don’t Spare Me, we had no reason to expect that it would do well. And so, going into Dead Weight, and going into the album, having achieved what Don’t Spare Me achieved, we now have higher expectations for ourselves. I think we’re thinking about legacy, now, and what we want our music to say, and continue to say. Our new music and Dead Weight is also reflective of ourselves taking our music more seriously.
SHEN: Totally. Well said, Miranda.
LUNA: Which musical influences went into the making of Dead Weight?
SHEN: For “Closest Friend,” I’d have to go with “Linger” by the Cranberries, and then “White Flag” by Jay Som for “Pandora’s Box.” “Dead Weight” stems from songs like “Bull Believer” by Wednesday, “Rockstar” by Momma.
ELIAS: Also, Mannequin Pussy’s “I Got Heaven.”
LUNA: I’m such a big fan of those last three bands. Tell me about recently playing the Chapel solo in SF, Sophia! I know Momma played that venue a few years ago.
SHEN: I was asked last minute by a guitarist I met at the Independent recently if Swell Foop was available to fill in for an opener who had to drop out because of car trouble. Miranda was in LA, and everyone else had class that day, so I ended up playing a solo set under the Swell Foop name. I love the Chapel—I’ve seen Sasami, Pure Hex, and Fauxes play there, so it was a huge deal to be asked to play. I hope we’ll be able to play there as a full band next time, because it’ll be four times the fun…
LUNA: And you mentioned an album on the way?
LOYER: Yes! I think one of the magic things about this collaboration is that, so often, pieces slot together in such a complementary way. The pieces of this album came together so naturally, even though I live far away. It feels extra special, the way that this has come together. I think people can definitely listen to Dead Weight and sort of see the direction we’re going to be stepping into with the next release.
LUNA: It’s the preview.
SHEN: Exactly, yeah. I think it’s also a pretty even 50/50 split between songs I’ve written, versus Miranda’s written, and ones that we’ve written together. And people resonated with “All the Way Down” so much. They resonated with “Dress Song” so much. And it’s so validating that those are the ones that both of us wrote together. This collaboration is so special. Also, just like, the names of the tracks on this next album are really captivating. We’re thinking through all the details, and the fact that we’ve even made it this far, and that people are listening and people care, and are even potentially going to give us resources that help us make our music, like that we even have a reason to think through these details is so exciting. It’s the most fun thing in the world to dream about what this could possibly look like.
LOYER: The album is a lot about music and about making music. I think people who both love music and are interested in musicians and what that process is like, and also people who are musicians and who are in the grind of, like, trying to get your stuff heard and playing shows and figuring out what speaks to you. I feel like that’s so much of what this record is about.
LUNA: You played a few tracks off the upcoming album most recently at the Resident in LA! And the crowd loved it. Miranda, you were singing that new song about liking Jeff Buckley and Nirvana, and thinking that made you unique (laughs). That song is so unique in structure, and the crowd was so enthused. People were chuckling exactly when I felt like you wanted them to. You really had the audience engaged with those lyrics, so I’m super excited to see what else the new album has in store for fans.
SHEN: It’s gonna be awesome.
LUNA: Can I ask where identity factors into all of this? What does this collaboration mean to you in such a white, male-dominated arena?
SHEN: Over the years, all of us being AFAB and POC has revealed itself to be integral to us feeling respected and comfortable creating the music we want to create. It’s an interesting dynamic to align myself with the optics as well as politics of being in a “femme band” while also identifying as nonbinary. It comes down to the difference between my internal identity versus how I am perceived as a “girl” behind a mic. I’m aware of what connotations accompany that. And so because of that I think it is my right to reconcile with the “femme rock” label for the community and solidarity that it brings to our band, at least for now.
ELIAS: Yeah, for me, being a girl who plays instruments means that you are constantly receiving comments about it. Not all the comments are bad or condescending; some are just expressions of neutral surprise that I’m doing what I’m doing. Overall, the fixation on my gender always comes first, before people have anything to say about my actual skill. That’s made me put in a lot of hours of practice and effort for my drumming skill to come through and ideally be the first thing that people notice, rather than the fact that I’m a girl which must mean it’s so hard for me, etc etc. This era of my life, I’ve been playing so much music with other femme musicians which has been extremely liberating, since they all get the frustrations that come along with misogyny in music, and it’s not just this big thing setting me apart from them. I play in another all-femme band as well (Meat Cube), and have made a ton of female/gender expansive friends through the UCB music major program. It’s been a huge part of my musical development, and it’s definitely part of what drew me to join Swell Foop in the first place, coming right out of a series of failed bands that were with all men.
LUNA: Finally, what kind of audience are you making music for?
LOYER: I don’t think I’m making music for a particular audience, I’m more just making music for Sophia and me. When I’m writing, I’m asking myself “What’s Sophia gonna think about this?” or “What can Sophia add to this?”. We’ve been able to preserve the passion and preserve the pureness of the art in a way. We’re not making songs that we think will have TikTok audios. I know what I admire, and I’m always trying to get closer to what I admire. Truly my audience is myself.
ELIAS: I think our music is for emotional people who aren’t afraid to wear their feelings on their sleeve. Anyone who’s ever had their heart completely shattered. During my first breakup, I felt completely insane and was searching the internet for songs that gave me some sign that I wasn’t the only one feeling this weird mix of pure anger, bitterness, tenderness, wishing things were different…when Sophia first sent the demos for what would eventually be the Dead Weight EP, I felt so seen. I was like, “Yes, exactly!!”.
SHEN: (Laughs) Especially with the release of our indie/hardcore fusion song “Dead Weight,” following our grunge rock song “Sedate Me,” which both fall into a lineage of riot grrrl music, I feel like our music is meant to speak to other AFAB, POC, queer people who have also viscerally experienced the same rejection, misogyny, self-doubt, violence…It’s kind of interesting, because even though we’re the artists putting out the music, I want people to listen to our songs and feel like they are being seen and understood, like we have captured a piece of their experience that they thought was individual or embarrassing or painful and illuminated how much we are actually connected. Our album will also continue to lean into anxiety and insecurity, to examine and challenge them, accompanied by this grungier and heavier sound to express the crushing weight and overwhelming depth of these emotions, making space for cathartic release for ourselves and our listeners.
Swell Foop has written their debut album, coming soon, and hope to tour within the next year. After their first ever appearances in LA, the band is gearing up for a show at the Knockout in SF at the end of October. Dead Weight is out now.
